Mormons On Sex and the Intelligence of First Created Beings: More Fatal Flaws In ”Divine” Mormon Doctrine
There was a Mormon couple in my house months ago, and they were, or rather the husband mostly, explaining to me how Adam and Eve were literally like zombies, “just there” as one half-black Mormon missionary put it, till they sinned by eating of the forbidden fruit, and since God wanted them to become gods like him, the sin was actually a good thing. Many true Christians when reading what I just said will no doubt to me recall this verse: “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!” (Isaiah/Isa 5:20) as they will when anyone does such a thing. Beyond that, the husband told me that Adam and Eve wouldn’t have been able to have children even, had they not done that, because they didn’t know how to have sex (therefore eating it would reveal how to them). I’m guessing their “divine prophet” and narcissist founder Joseph Smith had been asked by someone, probably a follower, about how they learned, and wondered how exactly it happened, and Joseph, knowing it would be awkward to many to say, “God showed them how” or just told them, fobbed it off by basically blaming the fruit for doing it. “The fruit tricked me God!” The husband also said he had wondered for a long time why God would tell them to be fruitful and multiply when they wouldn’t have figured out how unless they ate of the fruit, and gave me the example of it being like a father trying to teach his son a lesson by putting him out alone in a dangerous world and forcing him to sin so that he’d know what it was like to be evil. And this is why those teachings are very wrong and show a lack of common sense:
1) There’s no indication at all that Adam and Eve were just staring blankly into space. It says that God breathed into them a living soul, and that Adam that named various kinds of animals (no atheists, not every single sub-type, so calm down and take a chill pill and try not to burst a vein). And it would be utterly stupid to think God would command A&E to tend the garden when they were just going to lie on their backs despite being alive and Adam having just named dozens or hundreds of animals in hours. So, clearly they were intelligent and acted intelligently and had the ability to learn. If not, they would have repeatedly had to ask God for every single little thing like, “God will it be okay to place my foot in this spot?” and so on. Further, they couldn’t die, which would have protected them from what for us would be deadly mistakes. That’s another indication that had the ability to learn without having to be told everything.
2) If God commanded them to do something, like “be fruitful and multiple” why wouldn’t it be common sense to think they would have asked them, like any curious child (and the Mormons did insist that they were “just children”), that they would ask God what he meant, and like a good and intelligent father, would tell them? There is no indication in the Bible that it was a sin for God to teach them about sex, either directly or indirectly.
3) The Mormons, without evidence for doing so, link adulthood with the ability to learn about sex, or it being morally allowable for them to learn about sex, and linked adulthood with knowledge of right and wrong. There is no evidence at all that a person is only “an adult” if they learn about sex, not is there any evidence that children have an inability to learn about sex in anyway, and there is no evidence that Adam and Eve had no ability to learn about sex. To say “they were just children” like the Mormons said to me is extreme ignorance and as deceptive as Satan was at the garden. They were not merely children at all. To say “they were just children” is childish itself. Children, let alone 1 day old children aren’t born with the ability to speak fluently and use advanced concepts and to know how to garden like Adam and Eve were. They were born adults but without the knowledge of what good and evil were.
4) There’s no evidence that it’s immoral to teach a child about sex like was implied by the Mormons I met. For example, if in a culture where children are allowed to marry at 8 or 12 (Afghanistan and Spain), it wouldn’t be unwise to tell them what to expect. I’m not saying marrying a child off at 8 is wise, but what would be wise if that’s going to be the situation for them. And about half of America would agree, perhaps even most of the world, that it isn’t unreasonable to teach an 11 year old, or even less a 12 year old, what will be possible for their bodies to do within a year or two. But simply, there is no indication in the Bible anywhere that teaching a child about sex is immoral. There is a common sense teaching however, that even though some things are not said to be wrong, that that doesn’t mean they should be done. For example, teaching a child at a very early age (before seven) might hinder their ability to learn well.
5) It’s a contradiction to say that a person who doesn’t know about sex is a child, and because they are a child may not be told how to have it (in that it’s not possible for them to know because it would be immoral for God to do), and yet only become an adult by learning about it. In essence Mormons are saying, “They can’t become adults because God would never teach them about sex because it’s morally wrong for them to learn about it and God wouldn’t do anything immoral, and they became adults when they gained knowledge of it by eating of the fruit he provided for them which he tempted them to eat.” Do you see the contradiction? They are saying God wouldn’t teach them because “they’re just kids” but that he tempted them to find out by telling them to have kids themselves. It’s a plain contradiction and makes God out to be a perverted villain, and someone who tempts people to do wrong like Satan does.
6) The Bible doesn’t say that the forbidden fruit would impart technical knowledge on all subjects let alone sex, God simply said that it would impart the knowledge of good and evil, and he didn’t even say if he meant every single aspect of what good and evil are, or just the basics. If they learned about sex through the fruit then it would be just as reasonable to say that they gained all possible knowledge there was to gain, even knowledge of all future events. Who can believe that that was what happened? A Mormon might then say, “Well just as they only learned basic right and wrong, so also they only learned the basics about sex,” but that would be circular reasoning (the technical definition of it, which is arbitrary reasoning, meaning, “coming up with any explanation” to explain away one problem after another on whatever subject). The fact is, there’s no indication that the fruit imparted any other knowledge then moral knoweldge
7) By linking knowledge of how to have sex by eating the fruit, Mormons are saying that sex in and of itself is an evil thing, which is blasphemous and very absurd. That would mean in order to do what God says is good, that being to have children, they would have to sin. No wonder then that they are comfortable with saying that sinning/doing evil can be a good thing, and why they have no problem with doing what is obviously evil to others (and people can get into all kinds of examples of evil things Mormons do and how they minimize how bad they are by saying that Hell is really Earth, and “out darkness” is just being emotionally tormented, or at the worst, uncomfortable. Most of them will be in for a horrific scare when they wake up from death if they truly believed that upon dying.
8) Has anyone seen animals having sex? Who can deny that children could learn about it from watching the many kinds of animals God made? Furthermore, who except an ignorant person or someone to young to know or tell, that children experiment in ways that they don’t realize lead to learning how to do things which are sexual? Yet these Mormons that told me the sex-fruit story never brought this up, and acted completely ignorant about this. Furthermore, the Mormon claim that Adam and Eve were doing nothing might also be said as, “They were just bored because there wasn’t much for them to do but hang around the Garden.” Not much to do? If there truly wasn’t much to do don’t they think they would have experiment with their bodies and, just use your imagination with plants around them. Do Mormons think that God was just going to eat whatever they grew and leave nothing for them, or that God needed to eat everything? Obviously they would have had things left over to experiment with, and there were already plenty of things around to do it with. Or do the Mormons think God would have suddenly appeared and said, “No don’t use that that way?” Why would he? They were immortal and if they felt severe pain, obviously they would have stopped experimenting in whatever way was causing them severe pain. Further, sexual experimentation or mere experimentation wouldn’t have been evil for them to do because, just as the Mormons themselves say, “They were just children (who) didn’t know right from wrong.” NOT, “They didn’t know how to experiment.” That’s not what the fruit would have given them information about: “How to experiment,” no, it would have given them some basic knowledge about right from wrong, and that’s not “sex”, it would have been some instinctive awareness of what sin was. They would have felt GUILT when doing wrong, rather than NOTHING if they had done something wrong like lie or wound each other out of anger. Just as God said, it was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, not “of the understanding of good and evil and how to have sex and how to experiment.” No, it wasn’t as Satan said, who said, “You’ll be like God” or “gods”, no, they wouldn’t have become like gods or God because that fruit/s didn’t impart technical knowledge let alone extensive tech knowledge let alone all-knowingness and and perfect understanding like God has. Does anyone know what God said to Job? Remember when he asked Job if he could do certain things or knew where certain things where? He was showing that Job EVEN WITH ALL HIS DECADES OF KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING, EVEN AS A GOOD MAN (and for a man to be called “good” is a very rare thing, rarer than finding a super beautiful woman), that even with all that Job was not even close to being a god. How much less would Adam and Eve have been then, who were just children? Do the Mormons seriously want the world to believe they suddenly became adults just because they ate of the fruit? Clearly they merely obtained basic instinctive knowledge, hence why they covered themselves up in guilt – they instinctively realized through their new knowledge, that their sins would somehow be seen by God when he was present, hence why they did the strange thing of trying to cover their bodies when there was no need to – covering themselves with leaves. Did they try to rush to make a gun to scare God away, or to make a spear or arrow to shoot the snake with, or did they try to build a little fort to hide in? Did they try to dig for precious minerals and try to carve or refine them to appease God with, or did they try to sacrifice an animal to appease him with? No: because they didn’t gain that kind of technical knowledge. They didn’t suddenly have knowledge of the Bible, or suddenly know the Law of Moses, or “Do to others as you would have them do to you.” If they did, surely they would have started writing those things down and would have suddenly become instant super wisemen. And would God really allow “children” to all the sudden at that time in history to gain the knowledge and wisdom that takes a decades or a thousand years to learn? That would sure be awkward if suddenly Adam and Eve knew the physiology of all animals, knew what every mineral was, what they were composed of, where to find them, how to craft metals into tools, how to make any recipe worth making, knew all there was to know about economics, and sex – no, that’s not what they gain from eating the fruits. So what more needs to be said about this? Mormonism is clearly wrong and an obvious cult to anyone who hasn’t been brainwashed since childhood or who didn’t allow themselves to be sleep deprived day after day for weeks being told the same lies and being told to repeat them.
9) How did animals learn about sex? Various animals are “stupid” (in comparison to humans when humans get to be a certain young age) according to God (though not entirely stupid of course, God programmed them with clever ways to survive). Did animals need to eat of the forbidden fruit? Did God cut up little pieces for them all to eat, did he stick a molecule of each fruit in their mouths? Mormons imply that God would be some sort of evil pervert to teach a young person about sex, how much more if he had deliberately fed the animals this fruit? And supposing he did let them eat of it, why was there no restriction on them? And wouldn’t that have made the animals super wise and intelligent as Mormons imply it made Adam and Eve when they ate of it? So this Mormon doctrine of how Adam and Eve “needed” to eat the fruit in order to have life and “not be zombies” or “just there” is full of holes.
10) Mormons claim that Adam and Eve couldn’t have found out about sex because the were just kids/children. Think about that, seriously pause and think about why that would be true. Problem: it will get you no where because it’s a non-nonsensical statement. Why? Most kids do learn about sex, so it’s a known fact that they CAN learn about sex even if kids. Besides that revealed type error, the statement is also a logical fallacy known as “begging the question”, because, it makes no point. It’s just as meaningful if I were to say that adults can’t learn about sex, and the reason being: because they are adults. See what I mean? There is no explanation, just a mere claim. Some would call that circular reasoning but that doesn’t seem to be the right term for just a statement like that, it actually means to repeatedly give a different answer (as if any answer is a right one), but that seems to be a poor term for what is simply someone being careless, literally having no concern for the truth. Further, the Mormons are contradicting themselves, because Adam and Eve learned about sex before even having lived seven days! They weren’t even “kids” using Mormon logic: THEY WERE BABIES! And you who say, “Oh what’s wrong with cults, as long as they are happy,” but does being that blind, blind to the utter in-your-face obvious, while defending such lies bring happiness, or lasting happiness? The more they learn about the truth, the unhappier they will be, and with truth all around them, Mormon adults can hardly be among the happiest of people, and from my observations, are one of the most uncomfortable.
11) Mormons imply that God would be a sexual pervert or sexually immoral if he were to teach kids about sex, so, they reason that he put the knowledge in a tree, and that he got around this/had a way of not being one by simply putting the knowledge in the tree, near to them, knowing they would eat of it anyways so that they would learn and be able to procreate like he commanded them. One Mormon said to me that he couldn’t understand why (why did he even have to try to figure out why? Shouldn’t the many so called prophets the Mormons have had come up with an answer by now, after about 100 years and as many prophets, still no answer from all these righteous and superior real Christians who have the keys to Heaven and us just being sinful misinformed ignorants? But, does their answer make moral sense? “I God want you to have sex so you can procreate, but I God cannot teach you about sex because it would be wrong, so then here’s a book on how so that you can learn from me without having to listen to me with your ears, but: don’t read it or you’ll figure out what sex is. Stay away from the book or I’ll kill you one day and trouble you and your children forever, figuratively and literally.” How is that a solution? It makes God, instead, insane, because he’s given a command that must be obeyed or Adam and Eve a command that can’t be fulfilled unless they disobeyed God in some way. Perhaps at the moment they bit into the fruit they wouldn’t have been guilty, as in having committed sin, but the instant they realized or felt right from wrong, and the moment their teeth sunk in further past that point, or the moment it went down their throats, they would have then been aware they were doing something that was not good, and guilty. According to the Mormon, God was teaching them a lesson about how hard life was as sinners, though his example was more detailed and was nonsensical, but I’ll skip over that for now. But does that make sense, that to “teach them how bad sin was AND to teach, or rather allow them to know about sex, in order to procreate (but not for pleasure?), he FORBADE them to learn how? It actually is true in that God made laws in order that mankind would have laws to break so that God could prove himself to be truthful and mankind to be inferior, not invincible, lie-prone, and (after having lied) to be liars in comparison to him. But, does their explanation about why God would command them to do something they couldn’t do, make sense? No it doesn’t. Here’s why: if God were to tell someone to do something, they were to do it WITHOUT disobeying him to do so. For example if God said, “Get the sword across from you,” but a person was in your way at that moment, but God said not to murder anyone, you wouldn’t need to murder a person to get the sword, you would just wait till they moved, or tell God about the problem. Same with A&E, if there was something hindering them from procreating, they could have simply told him. God has the right to test, and if he had given them an at-the-moment impossible task to fulfill, A and E, with their rational intelligent minds, could have simply said, “But God, how?” And if they didn’t know how God could have simply said, “See those bigfoot creatures over there,” or “Watch the monkeys and dogs, watch what they are about to do.” And like Genesis said, they had nothing to be ashamed of, they were sinless, guilty of nothing, no reason to be embarrassed or ashamed at having any sexual thoughts or watching animals do anything sexual.
12) Further, Mormons even seem to claim God commanded them to care for his garden with them being ignorant as to how to do so too. Now how stupid is that? In other words, they were mindless, nothing was going through their heads no matter what God said to them. But Genesis says just the opposite. The Mormon claim that Adam and Eve were “just there” as one missionary told me, or like zombies, is stupid and shows ignorance of the Bible, or is a deliberate denial of what it says. Because it clearly shows they were smarter than “the average” person, especially for how old they were, which was just a few days. Examples of extremely complex thought BEFORE having eaten the forbidden fruit:
Gen 2:21 …Yahweh God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.
Gen 2:22 And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.
Gen 2:23 Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”
Gen 3:2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'”
Gen 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Gen 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise
So, does that show Adam and Eve were just blank-minded, just there, standing around or lying on the ground doing nothing, without any wisdom or understanding, unable to move or reach for a rake or little trowel to shift anything around with, unable to pick up fallen fruit and move it anywhere or eat it, without knowledge of WOMBS or what goes in or out of them? Now think about this: these few sentences are in the first three pages of the Bible, which Mormons are born with, raised with, carry around all day, or sit with all day for sometimes hours in their “stakes” (churches, but what an appropriate name to call them stakes instead, like something that pierces there ground and used to skew the blind and defeated enemies on), and even into old age, they still aren’t aware of these things, don’t mention them, or deny them, the most astounding being, not being aware even into old age. One Mormon I met, who had been raised one, and was about the age of 16, said he’d never read the Bible before, as in, having read it for himself. That is what Mormons truly think of the Bible, how useless they think it is despite their, “We believe it to be God’s word,” despite their later doubling back after hooking you in and telling you it has mistakes and gaps and was only as perfect as the writers, BUT, their Book of Mormon conveniently is beyond mistakes or with so few, that it doesn’t matter if you believe the entire Book of Mormon, because the mistake would be so small and God would correct you later on. To them, the Bible is a husk, the Book of Mormon the filler, hence their general extreme ignorance of even simple teachings in the Bible. As soon as they read it it’s forgotten, or mixed up and buried under Joseph Smith’s ranting babble in the Book of Mormon and his Doctrines and Covenants. Should they seriously study the Bible using logical thinking rather than basing their logic based on their dead cult leader’s mere claims, their thick delusion would quickly fade away, and they’d start to have trouble socializing at church and feeling bad about saying “yes” to whatever their leaders and deluded friends and family told them was true. And they can’t have that, because they think they’d have no friends if they started to doubt, that their family would punish or abandon them, and would have no one else to go to for help except for “the bad world out there where no one is good except the Mormons.”
11) How would it make God a pervert to teach Adam and Eve about sex, or give animals instinctive knowledge of how? Was God a pervert for making Adam and Eve fully adult humans that could procreate as soon as they both had each other to mate with? Was he a pervert for not giving them clothing, but letting them walk around naked with fully formed genitals? Is he a pervert for giving people natural attraction? Yet Mormons make God out to be one by what they imply. Obviously being that people can be easily deluded, and be isolated so as to be so ignorant as to not know basic things in life, they can say such things without realizing what they are implying, so I don’t fault them all as deliberate liars, but they are still lying, and it’s not lies that set you free, not Satan who set Adam and Eve free (which some Mormons actually teach, and actually believe Adam and Eve disobeying God was a good thing, and seemingly are praising Satan by doing so), it’s truth that sets you free.
After getting up to point 6 in this post, I later read this in a Google search result at 9:30 PM yesterday: “Are you kidding me? Come on! You don’t have to know anything about sex to know how to have it! Naked guy… naked girl… things start to rise” I hadn’t thought of that. Clearly Adam and Eve, like animals, could have had instinctual reactions, especially God had made them perfectly attractive in some design he chose, and with their unhindered intelligence could have learned more through the desire to touch each other and experimentation just as all “kids” do, programmed to act in a scientific way, and often repeating new experiments til they obtain a pleasing result.
Wait, the Mormons have evidence that I’m all wrong and that you can just ignore all my points: It’s “Everything Knight says is lies because he speaks against The Prophet. He’s just an apostate Mormon. Everyone who attacks Prophet Smith is just Satan’s zombie robots repeating whatever he says to them. They’re just anti-Mormon. You don’t need to think or question Mormonism, just believe our Prophet. He makes everything all better. What he says is true because we know so in our hearts. We got a confirmation and it says he’s an honest man and can do no wrong and would never lie to us. Our feelings say so. Plus, I read the Book of Mormon and listen to it all the time, and I’ve never found any mistakes in it, and I’m an expert in English grammar and American history. Plus the Prophet’s one and only wife divine golden plates that she showed to everyone, even his wife.” No, didn’t show them to anything close to everyone, and not even his wife saw them. Mormons believe it’s we Christians who are the robots with no free will, as do other ignorant people and chronic doubters, but it’s obvious to anyone who studies cults and brainwashing and psychology that they are the “brainwashed” ones.
It’s the truth that sets free, not lies and blindly or willfully following feelings. Lies lead to abuse of all kinds, including child abuse. And the FLDS, (which is another branch of Mormonism that follows Joseph’s original requirement to have more than one wife in order to become a powerful god), showed a little of how far it can go to trust in a man more than God.
The narcissist prizes attention, the psychopath is a sadist, the addict cares only for comfort and pleasure.
A true Christian seeks to conform to God's will; a self-centered man exalts his own will.
A logical man sees the universe and worships the Designer; an when an atheist sees it he resents his powerlessness, envies and scoffs.
To deny God's existence is to deny the existence of truth and right from wrong because without a God, right and wrong are simply opinions of imperfect beings and where they go when they die, who knows? What I mean by truth and right from wrong are the redundant terms, "absolute truth", "absolute good" and "absolute evil". So then, to deny the existence of God is neither logical nor moral.
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