Posts Tagged ‘libertinism vs liberalism’

Are Libertines and Liberals the Same?

March 28, 2012 3 comments

(Continued from the previous post):

In order of what seemed to be most relevant (in my opinion):


According to “The New Liberalism” “liberalism was strategically misrepresented libertinism” by unnamed persons, so for all anyone knows this is just a delusion or lie by the writer who himself recognizes a real connection.

According to “The New Revolution: Libertine Liberal vs Classic Liberal”:

There is a difference between “liberal” and “libertine”. We have, in the course of many social revolutions, struggled to define that line with varying degrees of success. “Libertine” behavior has and will always be looked upon askance because the connotation of “libertine” means the breakdown of society and the breakdown of society has not always been for the good of society. “Libertine” is to be free, not only in thought and expression, but from morality and societal norms. “Liberal” is to believe in and support the idealism of freedom of thought and expression, but to lend it support from a moral base.

Therein lies our problem with modern day definition of the term “liberal”. Somewhere around 1967 the term “liberal” became confused with the “libertine” revolution of the counter culture. While the movement began in the grandest of idealism of freedom and equality for minorities, retaining its “liberal” idealism for a time, it quickly slipped its anchorage and drifted resolutely towards the “libertine”.

My thoughts on “Liberal” is to believe in and support the idealism of freedom of thought and expression, but to lend it support from a moral base.” is that it sounds like to me, “Liberalism is libertinism only with the attempt to justify it using morals” which is an obvious contradiction. It seems analogous to me like saying (without the pretentious “idealism” word), “Liberalism is the belief that you should be able to think whatever you feel like without being punished, and studying how to justify this belief using current (Christian?) morals or believing that they are (for what reason?)”. Therefore, liberalism is the belief that you should be able to think (what about “and feel”?) whatever you want to, from abusing and raping, torturing and murdering for fun, to imagine and express with delight abusing kids and the destruction of all moral beings with the justification for doing so with (Christian?) morality. This is obviously a contradictory belief system, just like Hinduism with it’s original practices of widow-burning and ritualistic murder of strangers/travelers yet claiming that it’s about enlightening yourself by avoiding “evil”, and not saying what “evil” is.

Strangely, Wikipedia (which says a libertine is a person without morals) has a hidden key phrase on its libertinism entry: “Classical liberalism”. Being that Wikipedia is controlled by liberals (the head being the liberal and atheist Jimmy/Jimbo Wales (who also apparently has narcissism disorder), it’s obvious to me why they would hide saying that liberalism was based on immorality. Why they would hide the phrase though, is something I don’t understand, though I can imagine a demon was mocking God in a connivingly and malicious way, by possessing someone and getting them to place that hint. I tried to see if the phrase was simply an outdated Google result by looking at Google’s cache, but found nothing. The Classical Liberalism entry also makes no connection. The only page in which the two are mentioned together is the Individualism page (which by the way is worded pretentiously and not something a “lay person” could easily understand).

Side note: To my surprise I found out that John Calvin had interacted with and spoke against “libertines” (1)(2)(3), surprised because that man figures prominently in my life, and just didn’t think it would have anything to do with him.

The sad thing is is that “libertine” would best have been associated with Christianity, especially Catholics who became true Christians after being freed from Roman Catholicism, but “freethinkers” (many of whom seem to be atheists) messed that up, just like they did with the words “free”, “liberal*”, “science” and “skeptic” (1)(2). They also try to do this with logical fallacies (which has to do with philosophy). The only atheist I can think of who made a decent contribution to any of these fields is Bertrand Russel for philosophy and Tesla for electronics and engineering. Mark Twain contributed to humor.

*The link to the word liberal (above) links to a blog on the ancient meaning of the word liberal and uses a certain word for a certain male private part that some may consider offensive.

Related Info:
Christianity and Libertarianism: Do they belong together?