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Feeding Hummingbirds: Honey and Sugar

This is an example of what happens when you parrot something without checking the facts and simply believing a thing because it sounds scientific or by committing the fallacy of appeal to authority, concensus, emotion and committing the fallacy of assuming. I found a thread on GardenWeb started by an Alicia on whether or not feeding honey to hummingbirds is truly an unsafe thing or not (I injected my replies under the name “chosenbygrace”:

From Alicia, (hummerwatcher) “I found in the FAQ for this forum the following statement: “A honey water solution served up in hummingbird feeders can quickly become toxic and deadly. Honey rapidly ferments and also cultures a deadly bacterium. Contrary to popular belief, honey is not “more natural” than the cane sugar that is sold as white sugar. Honey has been chemically altered by honey bees: it is flower nectar and whatever ever else the honey bee ingested, digested, and spit back out again. Honey is nothing like the sucrose found in flower nectar and white sugar.”

I have fed a solution of pure honey/water in my hummingbird feeders for 12 of the 27 years I’ve maintained the feeders. I’ve noticed no ill effects on the apparently happy, healthy and certainly populous hummers who live, breed, nest, fight, flee, dipsy-dive, display, perch, torpor, twitter/screech and otherwise carry on as hummers do around here from April to October each year. I first started using dilute honey as hummer feed after I noticed hummers feeding from an open-source feeder I had placed near my garden beehives one Spring day (a modified chick feeder with an inverted quart jar of feed solution).

I have not observed any difference between the fermentation proclivities of honey/water as compared with cane or beet sugar/water solutions. Nor have I observed any greater tendency to culture bacteria or fungi… Of course, cleanliness of feeders and frequent sterilization are a given when feeding hummingbirds.

Is there a specific bacterium which a honey/water solution will culture and not refined white sugar/water?

I would like to know if anyone has any serious data on feeding honey solution to hummingbirds. Is there any scientific, physiological, biological chemical-analysis research to back-up the broad, generalized and somewhat inaccurate statements made in the FAQ quote shown above? (Honeybees neither ‘digest’ plant nectars, nor ‘spit back out’ the nectar… they do add certain enzymes to the nectar while carrying it in their ‘honey stomach’… and, yes, the nectars are, therefore, chemically different from the pure plant nectars. But pure plant nectars — the natural and best of hummer food — are also quite different chemically from monosource and chemically-refined cane or beet sugars.)

I will appreciate any well-researched information which anyone here might offer on this subject. Even anecdotal observations…

If someone can show to me that feeding honey/water solution is harmful to the hummers, I will, naturally, have to re-assess what I have been doing these past 12 years… with no apparent ill effects.

Alicia … a hummer feeder and watcher since 1981 … a beekeeper since 1970″ birding_nut, “From what I understand from doing a search on google, honey contains a fungus (unsure of the type) that can be transferred to a hummingbirds tongue and could prove fatal. However, I couldn’t find an actual research study cited. I do know that you are not suppose to feed honey to human babies under the age of 1-year because honey may contain the harmful bacterium Clostridium botulinum which causes a rare case of food poisoning.”

And peanuts can also cause rare cases of allergic reactions. What’s your point, ban peanuts?

birding_nut “I would guess that hummingbirds would be susceptible to this as well,”

There’s bacteria everywhere that rarely kills animals, that doesn’t mean don’t feed them food that rarely kills, that’s plain dumb and an appeal to inneffiency just like the greenies would have, ironically, millions or billions of people die to switch entirely to solar panels from oil.

“since the type C form of this bacteria is what causes huge die-offs of waterfowl”

hummers are not waterfowl, nor human babies, as PETAns and other anti-tests-on-animal people would tell you.

“when they ingest it…usually from fermented grain or other sources, they die,”

hummers don’t eat fermented grain

“maggots containing more concentrated amounts of the toxin are then injested..you get the picture.”

No I don’t get the picture, nor does the rest of the world, unless you mean getting the wrong picture or one made up based on nonsense. So, maggots get the bacteria in them, maggots which have super immune systems and whose feces kill all kinds of bacteria, AND? What then happens: the ecosytem collapses? The maggots evolve into walking singing dancing sex-having humanoids? It’s not obvious.

“Thus, I wouldn’t feed honey solutions to hummingbirds”

Thus you made a bunch of non-sequiturs or statements very similar to them.

“based on the above possibilities of contamination.”

What are you talking about man? You can’t boil honey water, only sugar water? Becauuuuse?

“Boiled sugar water is probably safer”

Probably because?

“and is what is pretty much universally recommended”

Pretty much = scientific statement? And who cares about concensus? What matters is what actually is true. Catholics are the majority, but does that mean their or their Popes’ claims, whom they say is God’s representative on Earth, that it’s okay to worship dead humans and pray to them and to angels is merely “venerating” and not worshiping things that aren’t gods or going against God’s word? Noooooo.

“on most of the sites I visited from the google search. Not sure what would happen if you boiled the honey solution first?”

Why not do a scientific experiment!

“BN”

Signing it with BN really added to the discussion. Do you love attention or what? Your user name wasn’t sufficient as a signature?

jimmyjojo then said “This is so sad…”

What’s sad is logical fallacies, like your trollish appeal to emotion at the beginning of your reply, that is what is sad, not DISAGREEING with your feelings or opinions. Stop acting like God and a leading authority on anything, when you’re obviously a person with narcissism disorder from your rants on this thread.

Jimmy then said, ” Quote [“]If someone can show to me that feeding honey/water solution is harmful to the hummers, I will, naturally, have to re-assess what I have been doing these past 12 years… with no apparent ill effects.”

What ill effects would you like to be shown?”

THE ONES THAT SUPPOSEDLY HARM THE BIRDS MORON. WHAT ELSE EFFECTS MORON JIMMY? DO YOU THINK JIMMY THAT PUTTING A QUESTION MARK AT THE END OF A SENTENCE AND ASKING WITH A SMUG TONE MAKES YOU AUTOMATICALLY IN THE RIGHT? What smug arrogant trolling idiot.

Then jimmy the troll said, “Studies like this?

http://biology.georgefox.edu/~dpowers/Powers/HumTopic.html

I just love people like this.”

Oh Jimmy really? You just love people like that? You just love making conniving prideful arrogant statements like that, that is what you love, you love to show off and get attention to make yourself appear to be better then others, and to make everyone else look inferior to you. No jimmy, you’re not superior because you talk with an arrogant know-it-all tone or words. That’s not what true intelligence is. You actually have to THINK CAREFULLY, no lazilly making cheap shots and parroting cliches without evidence to back them up.

“A pile of leading experts tell them something and that isn’t good enough.

Let’s look at that page shall we (love that shall we cliche jimmy? arrogant trolls like you looove cliches like that):

“Page Not Found

Oh dear, we couldn’t seem to find that”

Jimminysnappits! Page not found!

But something tells me one page doesn’t automatically = “a pile of leading experts” and that “a pile” is not a mountain, and that you, being a narcissist, are exagerrating and lying. A pile jimmy the science ignorant, is not the end and be all of knowledge or science. Just as scientists themselves say (and more intelligent parrots than you (especially when attacking Christians): “science is always correcting itself”, “science is always improving” and the fall back “we’re still learning”. But you being an arbitrary narcissist juts his head out in trollish fashion witha big troll face, saying, “Nooo noo nooo, this is sad, this is a troll, nanny nanny look at this study it’s proof of everything, ur a bad person, go away troll”. How about grow up jimmy and go away with your mental disorder and go live like a hermit so you stop annoying the sane people to death?

Then jimmy the troll said, “This link says “Honey ferments rapidly when diluted with water and can kill hummingbirds.

http://www.hummingbirds.net/feeders.html

And that’s proof, cuz it says so on that page.

What you’re really saying Alicia is that your research since 1981 is better than the experts and scientists in the hummingbird field.”

Jimmy, you’re arrogant and a lazy researcher. You’re lying about who is an expert and committing the fallacies “appeal to authority” and “appeal to concensus” and you’re not even getting the concensus right. And you’re so unintelligent you don’t think about the fact that not all science fields agree, and that there is conflicting and inconclusive data conflicts in different fields of any industry. What do you say about this Mr. Jimmy Knows All:

“It’s a well known fact”

Read that again Mr. Jimmy Expert on Whose A Leading Expert and What Gets the Final Say:

IT’S A WELL KNOWN FACT, EXCEPT TO ARROGANT NARROWMINDED MALIGNANT NARCISSISTS LIKE JIMMY. Moving on (unlike Jimmy and his troll friends):

“that honey is a poor source of nutrients, “Honey contains little amino nitrogen, with the lowest levels found in the lightest honeys”, the compleat Meadmaker (pg 54). Add to that honey’s acidic nature, and poor pH buffering capabilties and you have three factors that can adversely affect the yeast’s ability to effectively to its job… Honey contains very little nutrients for yeast growth. You will need to supplement with a well balance nutrient like Fermaid-K. ? Honey also contains very little (if any) buffering material. The pH will drop dramatically during the first few hours of fermentation, sometimes as low as 2.7-2.9. This will seriously stress the yeast, producing a very unhealthy yeast cell resulting in a long drawn-out fermentation. The problem can be minimized by adding a small amount of potassium carbonate at the beginning of the fermentation. Strive for the fermentation to be completed in two weeks.”

Does that sound like “quickly ferments” or does it sound like a person who is gullible and eager for praise but not willing to do the hard work to get it, and who has a problem with assuming things and not learning his lesson to NOT ASSUME, but who keeps doing so because of his mentally ill craving to bully others and get attention and praise he doesn’t deserve? It sounds like you are a myth repeating parrot, full of logical fallacies, including presumptions, because you have malignant narcissism disorder. The troll is you.

“How about this then, you show us your research proving honey is OK to use?”

Shown, Mr. Pretentious “How About This Then?”

Asking things witha smug tone and placing a question mark at the end, asking things with a questioning doubting “ah hah I got you” tone doesn’t make you right. You’ve got it backwards Jimmy, you celebrate (and immorally gloat) and take on the tone of someone who knows what he’s talking about before actually knowing what you’re talking about. You think doing a search on google and spending five minutes reading makes you a leading authority on what’s true. WRONG. You have EVIDENCE, not pot shots (true science is not pot shots and cheap shots and one time experiments, Jimmy the non expert in science, it’s repetition). You’re a shallow couch potato who thinks skimming for five or less minutes is enough to know the truth, and then you become biased once you’ve made up your mind, or made a fool of yourself by insulting others and bashing them over your beliefs.

“Never Feed Honey Solution to Hummingbirds […] what is this?”

It’s another page with mere claims, just like you. How about this: do actual research.

In Jimmy’s dumbed down world, Jimmy’s anti-science world, science isn’t do the experiments for yourself, it’s “Just believe whoever I say is right, don’t do any actual hard research, don’t you dare question, just believe whoever I say is right, whoever I say is a leading expert, whatever I say is an unclimbable pile, whatever I say is the concensus, don’t pay attention to anything else, ignore your nothing 12 years of feeding, that’s just nothign to talk about, just ignore it and just look at this 4 week study over hear done by guys in white lab coats who went to Harvard whose evolutionist friends granted them a BA in general bird studies and gave them extracredit and a $1000 grant to see if any hummeringbirds got sick a little when eating honey water.” You’re very gullible and illogical Jimmy, and a simpleton.

Jimmy, “You know if you Google “honey hummingbirds” there are 343,000 links most of which say pretty much the same thing,

No Jimmy with narcissism disorder, they don’t all pretty much the same thing. No chronically lazy minded Jimmy, you did not read 343,000 links and then go right to posting a reply to this person. The first three pages standardized pages on google and any other popular search engine, as every serious researcher knows, are the most relavant and 99.9% ONLY relavant pages. What comes after has a rapidly increasing irrelavance and is almost entirely ignored by serious reearchers due to knowing that fact after looking at them many times. You are an arrogant liar.

“and that is never put honey water in hummingbird feeders it’s been found to kill them.”

Appeal to repetition, another logical fallacy and a sign of someone with a NPD. Stop thinking that repeating and belittling makes you the winner in the Right One deparment. It makes you look, to people who know better, like a smug bully who uses arrogant belittlement to bully others into doing whatever he wants them to do.

“Now why would someone in their right mind argue with that? Unless?”

No, what you meant was, “Now why would someone argue WITH ME, JIMMY, THE ONE WHO IS ALWAYS RIGHT, PERFECT, unless they were crazy?”

You’re mentally ill jimmy, a living insult machine due to having been traumatized after too much flattery when you were little, and having been flattered too much by your parent or parents, you never built up the healthy mental ability to deal with criticism or bullying. Now you are a chronic bullier, forever trying to triumph over the humiliation you experienced as a child, by bullying everyone and anyone, for the smallest of things even.

buckmaster, “The tough thing is that it’s tough to tell what long-term effects anything is having on hummers.”

It’s not tough if they are tagged or you have them in captivity or disect them and see what happens after whatever. Not tough if you have the right equipment. This isn’t a study on weak electromagnetic waves on hbs from powerlines five miles away, it’s just diluted honey, buck.

“Unless they drop over at the feeder, you can’t always really tell if honey or red food coloring or whatever is having any effect on them. I know we all have our hummers we know by sight, but unless you’re banding the little guys, how can you be sure the bird that returns this year is the same “Junior” or “Betsy” from last year?”

Sure, tag it or photograph it and get it to get used to being around you upclose. Can you really be sure they all look like clones? Have you ever tried to tell them apart by regularly getting up close to them while they feed?

“Point is, why take the chance?”

For the sake of furthering knowledge and wisdom. Why not further science in this case? Are we talking about murdering a human, or anything that even comes close to being as being as valuable as a human?

“Plus, honey’s way more expensive (unless you keep hives, I guess)…”

And if your not someone who likes the thought of feeding birds refined sugar which is not natural and which is known to cause diabeted in humans from over use (not that birds are humans, but one of the people in this thread makes some comparisons of not quite and hardly related things).

“I’d break the bank if I used it instead of sugar water!”

Unless you didn’t regularly use the feeder and just wanted to see hummingbirds now and then.

christy2828 then said,

“Just want to point out that this user joined TODAY.”

That’s a logical fallacy (in the context you used it) in which you imply that this person is a troll for MERELY ASKING if feeding honey to hb’s was okay after all, and being that they said they’ve been doing it for 12 years (shouldn’t that make an impression on you christy? Or is 12 years nothing Miss LOOK AT ME TYPE “TODAY” IN CAPS! APPEAL TO MY EMPHASIS ON THAT WORD!”?

“For some strange reason, people like to get a rise out of people on GW forums.”

First you said it’s a person who joined today, then you said it’s PEOPLE ON GW forums. You’re very confused obviously, and I’d say a narcissist, being that you used the cliche “for some strange reason” and without any evidence, nor of it being strange. Trolls like you are everywhere, people with narcissism disorder, and being that they have a hankering for one upping everyone and trying to get everyone to think of them as awesome, it’s not strange at all that they’d poke their heads into wherever they’ve chosen to dwell and be a pest like you. Why are you insulting this person, and how did you contribute with your mere insults and pretentious babble? You made another fallacy: appeal to time. Since when are trolls only new to a forum or anywhere? So no one has been a long standing bully anywhere? There are no places that consist in large part of bullies or tyrants or stupid people? No governments, no leadership positions, no websites no homes? You’re truly simpleminded and stupid. It’s due to people like you that trolls do embed like ticks forever, you’re one of them.

“Take it with a grain of salt,”

Another unhelpful cliche typical of narcissists, to back up an your logical fallacies and insults. Why not say, “nanny nanny” to the person daring to question the status quo, daring to questiont the consensus, who dared, oh god know, to dare try and do their own experiment rather than having blind faith in Christy the Lover of Sophisticated Sounding Cliches More Than Hard Original Thinking?

“and let this thread fall down. Christy :)”

Christ: “Yeah, hah hah, hee hee, nanny nanny, smirk, lets oh do say we do indeed let this horrible thread this person started, how dare they! hah, let’s let it… smirk, fall down.” Christy squints her eyes at hummerwatcher Alicia and smiles while looking at her and whispering to her friend jimmyjojotheclownfromcanada just loud enough for Alicia to hear, “Hehe, Alicia is ugly, look at her clothes, she hasn’t been here long enough. Can you believe she actually feeds hummingbirds with honey water? What a stupid creep. She’s a troll haha. Troll. Look at her ugly hair. She wishes she was popular like us. Stupid freshman. Hey I know, lets go to her house at night and take her feeder and egg her house.” *Jimmy smiles back at Christy, yes lets teach that terribly arrogant troll a lesson she’ll never forget! She’ll never poke her noncomformist head back in GW ever again and we shall remain at the top! I bet she’s one of those stupid creationists anyways, they always have to try and get attention! Stupid Flying Spaghetti Monster worshipers!” Christy, “I bet she doesn’t believe in global warming! I bet she is one of those weirdos who doesn’t agree with NASA and the leading pile of experts who showed us the hockey stick and schemed in their emails to each other to supress data showing they were wrong and doesn’t believe in melting icebergs crashing everywhere or polar bears and penguins dying left and right and antarctica turning into habitable land for humans to enjoy and that plants actually breath carbon dioxide and thrive in it! SHE PROBABLY BELIEVES THE SUN WARMS THE PLANET LOL!”

sidk “mbuckmaster makes a good point. Unless you are scientifically studying the hummingbirds you don’t have any idea what the honey is doing to them.”

Yeah, a hummerwatcher who fed hummers honey water for 12 years is just a troll that stands a mile away looking through a telescope at hummers feeding on honey water and does trollish things in a hole like joining GW to have fun trying to annoy christyconnivingsmileyfacetroll, sidktroll and jimmyjojothenobodytrollfromcanada and everyone else on GW (all of whom except for newbies like Alicia the noncomformist happen to agree with whatever those three trolls say).

sidk, “I have an old book by an English guy named Mobbs who wrote about keeping hummingbirds in aviaries. It’s not a scientific book”

Then why mention it, and why insult Alicia for doing a 12 year feeding of hummers with honey water when johnnybobo and christy completely dismiss it as having any value? Do as you say not as you do right hypocrites?

“but he goes into a lot of detail on particular hummingbirds including how long they lived in captivity. It was usually just a few weeks or months, which made me really sad and angry to read. When he could tell what they died of it was usually a yeast infection (candida). He fed them honey because back then they thought it was more natural. Now that we know better”

“Now we know better” because of a non-scientific study and a dead link and two pages of mere claims no longer than a few sentences vs a 12 year at least casual observation Alicia? Question: are you a moron? And trolls like you would arbitrarily to make themselves look good, say, “Oh that’s an outdated study” if the book had disagreed. Further, you said, “usually”. So you made a casual connection and now that’s proof it’s honey that’s at fault, and honey can’t be improved, can’t be boiled. What simpletons, what petty neurotic babies. I can just imagine you all talking all speedy when making your comments acting all freaked out and with subdued anger, “Lets get rid of Alicia hurry so we can get back to our real lives. She’s upsetting our worldview, she’ll make fools of us if we don’t shut her up fast. Kill the thread don’t give her anymore attention. She’s like a creationist!”

“and make their artificial nectar from white sugar”

And don’t you know they need us and our artificial refined white sugar? Don’t you know humans have nothing better to do then feed hummers and that they would all die out if not for us. They would suffer horribly. I thought “natural evolution and humans living off raw veggies and gray water” is the God Saviour? Which leading expert on New Age Stuff should I follow?

“some zoos have been able to keep hummingbirds alive for years. Wat does that tell you?”

It tells me you made a mere claim they’ve been able to keep a vague unsaid amount of unsaid type of hummingbirds alive for years” and that you’re a confused and illogical idiot who doesn’t know how to make logical connections when trying to express himself.

“Here is a link that might be useful: Troll”

I’m betting you don’t understand that page sidk and think that merely because you posted it you must be an expert on Trolls and couldn’t possibly be one. Typical idiot-think and a typical troll tactic.

mbuckmaster, “Good info, sidk…and anecdotal evidence like that is really the best we have with hummingbirds. Sounds fairly conclusive to me as far as it goes. And a shrewdly included link! ;)”

Someone sounds sane, that’s dangerous. jimmyjojo, “Sidk, One thing many people in North America don’t know is that in Europe “humming birds” (two words) is a common word for a type of nectar eating sunbird. They are found through the middle east and into Africa, and are kept in Europe as caged birds much like people do to parrots over here.”

Wow the parrot comparison just really made everything more understandable. *rolls eyes*. And this is proof now that hummbers will die and the entire eco system will collapse, and that maggots something or other will uh, Mars is crashing into Venus and hummers love geodes ten four ten four over and out do you read me that Alicia is a creationist religious extremist and global warming denier and that Jews suffered nothing during Nazi march of dimes? I’m sure you get the picture.

jimmydodo, pardon, “jojo” I mean, “When you read on the internet or in books about “keeping” humming-birds it’s a totally different genus of bird.”

What are you talking about and what’s this have to do with honey fed hummers? You are a lemon salesman man.

“I hope that person is a Troll and not someone killing our hummingbirds”

Cuz trolls are people that would harm animals. And what a moron, based on one study, a page that isn’t even cached on google, a study that didn’t say anything about mass killings from what little you mentioned, nothing close, you’re exagerrating it up to “killing YOUR hummingbirds” “our” as in “whoever agrees with me jimmyjojo”? You’re malignant narcissist, which includes paranoia and extreme self-centeredness for whoever doesn’t know. What’s next jimmy, are you going to say Alicia is going to be responsible for another holocaust? You have “extremist” crazyiness in place of logic. I hope you don’t have kids or friends to drive insane.

“through sheer arrogance.”

Did you say that while loudly sipping your gourmet 10 year aged wine, little boy? Mr. Sheer Arrogance says you can kill his hummingbirds (which just cannot, oh, oh oh oh cannot belong to THOSE kinds of people like, ew, oh perish the thought, people like… eh, ew, ugh, gross, disgusting, EW PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS THAT DON’T MATCH MY PRESUMPTIONS… PEOPLE LIKE, EH EH EH, UHHHH, UH LEE, UH, AH, ALICIA. God I finally said it, that name. I must wash my royal princely mouth out. I shall never say that name again so long as I, jimmyjojoofkahnadah, lives.

sidk, “Mobbs”

christy, “DAMNIT SIDK I SAID LETS LET THIS THREAD DIE SHALL WE! DAMNIT! WHY CAN’T YOU ALL JUST LISTEN TO ME AND TAKE A SUBTLE HINT WITH MY PRECIOUS SMILEY FACE AND NAME SIGNED AT THE END! Can’t you see this Alicia is a subversive who is trying to upset our happiness!? … Fools.”

sidk, continued, “may have also written about sunbirds or other nectar drinking birds but the book I have is specifically about hummingbirds. I haven’t run across any examples of that confusion in other books about aviculture but I guess there’s no shortage of ignorance about nature on either side of the Atlantic.”

I love that, “no shortage of ignorance”. Makes you sound like very wise person in his mid forties. You must be very smart. Your comment about Mobbs maybe having written about such and such really furthered the discussion on whether or not IT’S A MYTH THAT FEEDING HUMMINGBIRDS DILUTED HONEY WILL CAUSE HUMMINGBIRD MASS DIE OFFS, let alone kill a few in even a year vs refined sugar WHICH ALSO HASN’T BEEN OBSERVED IN ANY LONG TERM STUDIES AS IS OBVIOUS FROM THE IGNORANT BABBLE IN THIS THREAD MADE BY THE “NO NO NO, YOU’RE A TROLL” oafs here.

sidk, “I can’t imagine why anybody would call any other bird a “humming bird” since only hummingbirds have wings that hum.”

*Falls asleep. Wakes up.* I have an idea: lets not feed humming birds at all, even he abandoned ones, cuz that’s interferring with Mother Evolution and you’ll end up in Hell for that. And it’s not natural to feed refined sugar water let alone in plastic feeders with BPA in them most likely probsly prob, and the sugar water and feeding dishes can get dirty, and fill with bacteria and viruses very quickly since bacteria and viruses are all over in the airy stuff in the air (leading experts in Mainstream Science and Authoritarians Say So! PILES OF THEM! AND THERE’S 343,000,000,000,000,000,000 RESULTS ON GOOGLE THAT PRETTY MUCH SAY THE SAME THING!) and hummers are always sticking their tongues in dirty stuff, and uh, so, they might die from bacteria collecting in the non living dish which doesn’t naturally clean itself and which people have to clean, people who are dirty and covered in bacteria that hummers don’t often seem to come into contact with (BUT I’M NOT A MAIN STREAM SCIENTIST WHO BELIEVES IN A 13 BILLION YEAR OLD BIG MAGIC LIFE ORDERING MAKING BOMB I NEVER SAW NOR ABIOGENESIS, NOR MACRO EVOLUTION, SO SHOULD YOU EVEN READ WHAT I’M SAYING? CUZ THAT MAKES ME A KOOK! KOO KOO KOO KOO, I DON’T AGREE WITH THE MAINSTREAMERS! I’M SO STUPID, SUCH A SINNER) blah blah the point is, don’t feedum, cuz it’s not natural. And give up your dogs and cats. Only take care of your own kids, don’t even look at kids that aren’t your own, don’t touch them, don’t take pics of them, and just do what is natural for the non-arrognt humans to do: eat raw veggies and build homes out of dirt, just dig a hole in the ground and live like a fox. Now that’s true humility and caring for the environment. Woah, wait, that might harm worms and displace the mother earth gaya dirt, and might harm bacteria… oh what to do… I know! Lets kill ourselves! No wait, then maggots mite eat our bacteria infested bodies, and that’s not natural. Maybe I’ll just stand still for as long as I can and wish myself out of existance.

One more thing sicky, chistyconniving and jimmyjester: why would a troll post in their first statement a warning about feeding hummingbirds with honey, if they were trying to upset you by convinving everyone to do so, and denying for a malicious reason that it was a problem, and never denying once in their statement that it might be? Why even bring it to your attention with concern they might be doing harm if they WERE trying to upset you more than hummingbirds, and harm hummingbirds? Further, why are you acting like Alicia is denying there are such warnings or are none, when her very first sentence she points one out? Stupid, crazy, libeling, insano, idiot, hypocrite, careless, parrots blind to the utter obvious much? Trolls? You can’t see the first sentence? Progress haters? Fearmongers?

Nectar

Nectar is rich in vitamins and minerals and is a good substitute for the white-refined sugar. Nectars are produced by plants. They are a good substitute for sugar and rich in essential vitamins and minerals. Since the nectar is derived from nature the diabetic people can easily substitute nectar with sugar as it will never increase the blood sugar due to the presence of glycemic index. The nectar is converted by the bees while they make honey. Nectars have very recently entered the family of edible food stuffs. Unlike the honey the nectars are produced by the flowers. They are preferred by the vegetarians as there is no animal involved in the creation process.

Honey

Honey is a well known healthy food and is known for its healing and nutritional qualities. It is a good source of energy and is beneficial for our health. People who have diabetes can consume them without any fear of their blood sugar getting increased. Unlike nectar honey is created by bees who utilize the nectars harvested by them from flowers. They have been a favorite among people for many years. They are however sometimes despised by the vegetarians as there are animal involved.” – vspages

The earliest mention I could find of honey water getting fungus in it, and it was also the earliest seemingly scientific one, was from a “Wildlife review, Dept. of Recreation and Travel Industry,” 1969, Volumes 5-6, of the British Columbia. Dept. of Recreation and Travel Industry, British Columbia. Fish and Wildlife Branch, and an apparent vague reference to it in a letter from a reader to Popular Mechanics in 1970 to it, which apparently then became used as a warning by others into a DO NOT DO THIS warning. So that’s it for the most part, a reference to some super obscure hummingbird study in or before 1969, which canadian jimmyjojo (and christy and sidk by agreeing with him) turned into, “basically 300,000 links that all agree with each other”. That one statement got repeated over and over in various hummingbird books and websites and by other gullible, presumpteous, lazy-minded lookwhaticandoers.

And if that’s not enough evidence for you that this whole honey is murder thing is nearly a mass hallucination, it’s a fact that sugar water can also ferment under heat and sunlight and that depending on the temperature, the feeder would need to be cleaned daily (this is Farenheit, starting ith 71-75):

71-75 = 6 days
76-80 = 5 days
81-84 = 4 days
85-88 = 3 days
89-92 = 32 days
93+ = change daily

Now who, knowing this, is going to say, “but you can’t boil the honey, it’s impervious to boiling, only refined sugar in water can be boiled”?

If you do become of a hummingbird that has been infected by a fungus, either take it to a vet if you can catch it, or consult this book here and try it on your own if you want to.

Categories: trolls, trolls Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

FTL: New Evidence Against Relativity… From CERN

September 23, 2011 1 comment

[There is an update to this story, the experiment has been repeated and succeeded again click here to read about it]

Faster than light? CERN findings bewilder scientists
By Eryn Brown and Amina Khan, Los Angeles Times
9/23/2011

Physicists at the lab near Geneva say they’ve observed subatomic particles moving faster than the speed of light. If confirmed, it would defy Einstein — and upend our understanding of physics.

The globe of the CERN laboratory shines outside Geneva. A team of experimental physicists there says it has recorded neutrinos traveling 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Albert Einstein had the idea. A century of observations have backed it up. It’s one of the cornerstones of physics: Nothing travels faster than the speed of light.

But now a team of experimental physicists at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known as CERN, says that one exotic particle possibly can.

The scientists reached their conclusion after sending streams of tiny, subatomic particles called neutrinos hurtling from an accelerator at CERN outside Geneva to a detector at the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy, about 450 miles away.

The neutrinos seemed to get there too soon — 60 nanoseconds too soon, give or take — than they should if they’d been traveling at the speed of light.

That slight edge, if it holds up under scrutiny, has enormous implications for our understanding of the laws of nature, physicists said – More here

“Basically, all of special relativity would be wrong,” said Drexel University physics professor Dave Goldberg, referring to Einstein’s 1905 theory establishing that light travels at a constant speed, regardless of how fast an observer is traveling, and that nothing in the universe can go faster than it. – More here

More information:

The Great Gravity Probe B Hoax

Faster Than Light? Neutrino Finding Puzzles Scientists

Faster than a Speeding Light Wave

The First Test That Proves General Theory of Relativity Wrong

Was the Speed of Light Faster In the Early Universe?

Speed of Light May Have Varied in the Early Universe

The Decrease in The Speed of Light (Video) Part 1

The Decrease in The Speed of Light (Video) Part 2

The Decrease In the Speed of Light – An Update On Developments

Reports of the Death of Speed of Light Decay are Premature

On the Constancy of the Speed of Light

Starlight and Time

Characteristics of the Mainstream Science Cult and How It Imprisons the World

Post link: http://vainstream.tk

Mainstream Science is both a propaganda system and philosophy (A belief or system of beliefs accepted as authoritative by some group or school) controlled by various rich persons who are against obedience to the God of the Bible. It is also a cult of various personalities, their main founders being, besides Satan, Kepler, Copernicus, Darwin and Einstein, mainly Copernicus, Darwin and Einstein, which are like an evil version of the Christian Trinity. The equivalent of spiritual prophets who came after the founders, were/are Galileo, Bernard Shaw, Frederick Nietzsche, Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, Mike Shermer, and to some degree, Michio Kaku. It also includes and any scientist who strongly oppose the claim that God exists, or who refuse to say that he does, who claim that even if he does exist, has no concern about what happens around Him and who say or imply that there is no evidence for the Bible being true. The core beliefs and propaganda are these:

1) Sentient aliens inside of our solar system don’t exist and any that are outside can’t come to earth because nothing can have the intelligence to make a portable energy source or engine that would allow them or any unmanned machine to get to Earth.

2) Machines that can travel faster than light are impossible to make.

3) Communication that can be done faster than light is impossible.

4) Aliens can’t be more intelligent than humans.

5) It’s so improbable that aliens would find us that it will never happen because there is nothing special about our location in the universe for anything intelligent to come to us and because we haven’t existed long enough to be found

6) If aliens made it to earth they would be perfect and so never have any accidents, like whatever ship they come in to Earth, crashing on our planet.

7) The universe came into existence about 30 billion years ago for no reason from an unknown thing.

8) The event that created the universe was not caused or directed by anything intelligent and galaxies, planets, stars, asteroids and comets weren’t either.

9) The creation of life was not created by anything intelligent nor it’s development directed by anything intelligent (nor could it have been), and only humans and human like beings on earth when they came into existence were able to intelligent direct things in the universe to their liking, like breeding plants and animals and creating tools.

10) Giant hair-covered or hairless hominids, including humans, can’t and don’t exist and couldn’t have for the past 100,000 years.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

11) Dinosaurs never lived with humans and couldn’t have.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

12) Humans didn’t exist before 100,000 years ago and couldn’t have.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

13) Dinosaurs didn’t exist for the past 100,000 years and couldn’t have.

14) Dinosaurs haven’t existed for the past 100,000 years and couldn’t have.

15) Dragons never existed (or: Dragon’s haven’t existed for the past 100,000 years and couldn’t have.)

16) You can’t know if God exists unless he is a material thing that you can both see and touch and perform experiments on to see that he is God.

17) If God exists he doesn’t care about what happens around Him.

18) Reincarnation is impossible.

19) Spirits don’t exist.

20) The physiology, behavior and communicatory behavior done by animals, which include humans, can be explained by Big Bang Theory, Darwinian Evolution Theory, including why rape and why abuse of children happens.

21) More energy can’t be produced than the energy that was needed to produce that energy (for example, zero point energy devices can’t exist).

22) Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity is at least 99% true, and no other theory of how the universe works therefore can replace it.

23) Quantum Mechanical Theory is 100% true.

24) Only mainstream scientists can known if something is true or not and only through them can non-mainstream scientists and non-scientists know if something is true or not.

25) Something is true if a consensus of mainstream scientists say it is (therefore, truth is not absolute, since they can change their minds, and therefore morality is also determined by the consensus of mainstream scientists, including whether or not rape and abusing child is good or bad).

26) Charles Darwin, Mark Twain, Frederick Nietzsche, Carl Sagan, Bernard Shaw, Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Richard Dawkins, Mike Shermer and Michio Kaku are like gods (or the wisest men and their claims that the things in this list are true cannot be refuted).

27) Theists who worship a person who chooses to be invisible or invisible to mainstream scientists cannot be scientists, nor can any who disbelieve any of the 21 things in this list. Stated another way: Religion isn’t compatible with science.

28) Disorder can produce order (for example the “Big Bang” or explosions can result in Earth with all the life in it and all the countless ordered complexity with all it’s countless types of beautiful features and emotions.

29) Low order can produce higher order (like how disorder can produce order).

30) Governments can’t keep secrets for longer than 40 years.

31) Governments have never conspired against their citizens

32) Governments can’t conspire against their citizens.

33) You should doubt whatever you hear, especially those who make claims against Mainstream Science.

34) Anyone who disagrees with mainstream science should be ignored, or laughed at or spoken out against, verbally harassed, lied about, physically abused or murdered.

35) Less intelligent people should be discriminated against.

36) If aliens did make it to Earth they would make it their goal to first meet with the mainstream scientists and peaceful leaders of the world, like President Obama.

37) The climate is getting more extreme and most of the land might mostly be under water one day, therefore, stop making any carbon dioxide.

First, some of you who read this list might notice it’s core beliefs (37 I listed) are more than double the size of the ten commandments. The ten commandments can be turned into 11 or 12 and 14 if you add the “Love the Lord your God with all your heart” and “Love your neighbor as yourself” ones, and 15 if you add the new commandment Jesus made, which was that Christians were to love each other above non-Christians (and therefore non-Christian neighbors). If you added other core beliefs of Fundamentalist Christians, like that salvation is only through Christ, that Christ suffered for 100% for 100% of whatever the sins were of whoever he suffered and died for, that God is Triune, that God is all knowing (including knows the future, that God is all powerful, and that the Bible (whatever God originally said) is perfect, and that God is always to be obeyed no matter what, then you get 20 “laws”, and despite that, there is still 17 more in the Mainstream Cult.

So, at the most, 38 more things (see “Second”) must be believed in the mainstream scientist list, to be a good, decent person, reasonable, logical and “acceptable” person. So, no one who supports mainstream science can say that Mainstream Science is much easier on the mind then the Bible and that the Bible has so many laws that it makes life unbearable, without contradicting themselves.

Second, there are obvious contradictions in this list:

How is Earth having been around for 4 billion years, which mainstream scientists claim (and could be a 38th law in the list), not long enough of a time for aliens to find us?! How extremely absurd that they claim that it’s too absurd for Earth to have only been around for 6,500 years, but absurd that after FOUR BILLION any aliens could find us! It’s as if their logic is totally backwards on everything!

If aliens would be more intelligent than us, then wouldn’t we be more intelligent than the aliens that consider us aliens? It makes no sense.

I can point out the errors in mainstream cultic thinking, easily:

1) Sentient aliens inside of our solar system don’t exist and any that are outside can’t come to earth because nothing can have the intelligence to make a portable energy source or engine that would allow them or any unmanned machine to get to Earth.

There’s no evidence for this belief; they are mere claims.

2) Machines that can travel faster than light are impossible to make.

No evidence for this belief.

3) Communication that can be done faster than light is impossible.

It’s impossible in Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity, not other theories or ideas.

4) Aliens can’t be more intelligent than humans.

No evidence for this belief, and it’s a contradiction since other aliens would consider us “aliens”.

5) It’s so improbable that aliens would find us that it will never happen because there is nothing special about our location in the universe for anything intelligent to come to us and because we haven’t existed long enough to be found

No evidence for this belief. There is even evidence against it: Tychonic Geocentric Theory and the implication in the Bible that Earth is the center of the universe. Tycho is mostly an accepted scientist who contributed to astronomy science, and God, he made it: God + Tycho, how can you beat that?

6) If aliens made it to earth they would be perfect and so never have any accidents, like whatever ship they come in to Earth, crashing on our planet.

No evidence for this belief. Why would the ability to get from a far star to Earth = you become a god, especially when Mainstreamers supposedly don’t know how to travel faster than light, and therefore what would be required to do so!? For all they know you could do it with some combination of parts from Radio Shack and a nuclear submarine.

7) The universe came into existence about 30 billion years ago for no reason from an unknown thing.

No evidence for this belief, and much evidence against the Big Bang, so much it exhausts me to try and list it all, and I never end up finishing a book about it (which I keep trying to make).

8) The event that created the universe was not caused or directed by anything intelligent and galaxies, planets, stars, asteroids and comets weren’t either.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

9) The creation of life was not created by anything intelligent nor it’s development directed by anything intelligent (nor could it have been), and only humans and human like beings on earth when they came into existence were able to intelligent direct things in the universe to their liking, like breeding plants and animals and creating tools.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it. There is also something silly about those who parrot this claim, which is that food only tastes good to us because man learned how to breed what he liked… if that isn’t arrogant and ignorant, what is? How stupid must you be, and ignorant, to not know that tons of wild food taste good, and that we still rely on it? It’s so extremely dumb to take glory away from God with such a claim. People who make this claim are either very very hateful and self-centered on their own feelings, but not mentally ill, or have anti-social personality disorder, and therefore are mentally ill. It’s also dumb because the people who make such a claim imply that they’ve tasted the differences between the many wild and “domesticated” things in the world, and that only what they prefer is what tastes good (and that wild foods don’t taste good at all). Do you see how dumb that is, what bizarre logic that is? It reminds me of North Korea’s dead and insane leader, whatever his name was.

10) Giant hair-covered or hairless hominids, including humans, can’t and don’t exist and couldn’t have for the past 100,000 years.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it. Just look at the heretic Christian Steve Quayle’s site for pictures and Burlington News for extensive records of findings of giant human skeletons.

11) Dinosaurs never lived with humans and couldn’t have.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it. Just read the book Forbidden Archeology, made by a Hindu who believes Earth is millions or billions of years old (apparently finding out that mainstream scientists are oppressive liars wasn’t a big enough bang for him that their theories might also be oppressive lies).

12) Humans didn’t exist before 100,000 years ago and couldn’t have.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

13) Dinosaurs didn’t exist for the past 100,000 years and couldn’t have.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

14) Dinosaurs haven’t existed for the past 100,000 years and couldn’t have.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

15) Dragons never existed (or: Dragon’s haven’t existed for the past 100,000 years and couldn’t have.)

No evidence for this belief, much against it.

16) You can’t know if God exists unless he is a material thing that you can both see and touch and perform experiments on to see that he is God.

And why would this be true? No evidence for this belief, much against it.

17) If God exists he doesn’t care about what happens around Him.

If God doesn’t exist how could you know what his personality be like if he did?! Mainstream scientists keep replacing the God of the Bible, like pathologically mentally ill people, with a God in their own image: one who does whatever they want and thinks however they want him to: that’s not “God”, that’s a slave!

18) Reincarnation is impossible.

It’s not impossible, but there is no evidence that shows it to be true, and a lot of indirect evidence against it (some which I point out out here, the rest scattered throughout my journal which is evidence for the Bible, and the Bible contradicts reincarnation, as it says man only gets one life to live here, and then either goes to Heaven, or must face condemnation and be imprisoned in Hell).

19) Spirits don’t exist.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

20) The physiology, behavior and communicatory behavior done by animals, which include humans, can be explained by Big Bang Theory, Darwinian Evolution Theory, including why rape and why abuse of children happens.

There are so many things about animals and humans that are not just “not easily explained” but for which no explanation can even be imagined, as other evolutionists have admitted in almost the same way I just said it, that you can feel (if you’re not insane and have read the news and about evolution a lot) that whatever explanation that is come up with, would be a mere claim, and probably stupid. For example: how can behaviors done by stupid animals, like maggots, which show wisdom or rather knowledge of what another thing is thinking (like larvae disguising themselves to continue eating prey) have evolved to have such knowledge? How would a newborn thing “know” to disguise itself by random events that lead to it being what it is? Try and imagine: some chemicals come together one day and turn into a thing that replicates and attaches to other chemicals to exist for a while, and then eventually, it gets nervous system, then a brain that can make decisions about where it wants to go and eat and what to touch, then it gets the ability to smell, taste, feel by touch, see, hear, and then emotions of all kinds, then the ability to talk, then to know what other animals are thinking, and then the desire to dance, sing, collect things, make art and tools and the desire to explore and have relations with other animals and aliens. Not necessarily in that order or having all the sensory abilities, but how? No one has even come up with close to an explanation as to how such things would happen by random events so that billions of “religious fanatics” would become mainstream scientists, instead, they stay loyal to whatever God or gods they worship. So clearly, there is something about theistic religions that are convincing the majority of the world to stay theists and religious. And there are many agnostics who refuse to entirely embrace mainstreamism (which ironically sounds like “extremism”).

21) More energy can’t be produced than the energy that was needed to produce that energy (for example, zero point energy devices can’t exist).

And the evidence for this is? I’m also curious to know then how nuclear power plants can be explained: If I cause an explosion that leads to a nuclear detonation that puts out more energy than I did to make the explosion, would that violate this law? Or is all the energy I used and whatever energy was used to get me to that point taken into the equation?

22) Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity is at least 99% true, and no other theory of how the universe works therefore can replace it.

There’s much evidence against GTR and Special Relativity. For those of you who want to see it, ask, and I might show it to you if I’m in a position to, or just search the Internet.

23) Quantum Mechanical Theory is 100% true.

There’s scientists who claim to have come up with evidence that it is not true.

24) Only mainstream scientists can know if something is true or not and only through them can non-mainstream scientists and non-scientists know if something is true or not.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it. It’s also used or implied against those who find evidence against mainstream science, like some fossil that a non-scientist discovered which shows Mainstream age dating to be wrong.

It’s also contradictory: if only Mainstreamers can know what is true, then how can they cause anyone else to know, who isn’t one? It’s like saying, “Only Catholics can have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you can only be a Catholic if you have the Holy Spirit.”: Then how does anyone become a Catholic in the first place? Or a better analogy: “It’s impossible for there to be any other king than God, but he can make you a king if he decides to,” which makes no sense because it’s supposed to be impossible.

25) Something is true if a consensus of mainstream scientists say it is (therefore, truth is not absolute, since they can change their minds, and therefore morality is also determined by the consensus of mainstream scientists, including whether or not rape and abusing child is good or bad).

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it. If it were true than racism, discrimination against people merely over their age, rape and child abuse could be “good” and “moral”, but they obviously aren’t to those who still have still have their moral instincts regarding the right or wrongness of those things.

26) Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, Charles Darwin, Mark Twain, Frederick Nietzsche, Carl Sagan, Bernard Shaw, Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Richard Dawkins, Mike Shermer and Michio Kaku are like gods (or the wisest men and their claims that the things in this list are true cannot be refuted).

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it. That Nietzsche committed suicide says a lot, if he was supposed to be one of the most logical and right-thinking people ever.

27) Theists who worship a person who chooses to be invisible or invisible to mainstream scientists cannot be scientists, nor can any who disbelieve any of the 21 things in this list. Stated another way: Religion isn’t compatible with science.

No evidence for this belief, mountains of obvious against it: at least 40% of the people who are employed as scientists in the world are religious, and the majority of inventions in the world, or the components (which are also inventions) that make up those inventions, are religious people. Even if it were a smaller number at this time, the fact is: most of the kinds of types inventions ever made, were made by religious people, or those living in a mostly religious environment. Rarely if ever is something new come up with these days, let alone something very useful or affordable, let alone by a mainstream scientist. Even if something is, it’s often hidden from the public or ignored by other mainstream scientists in favor of things which already exist or inferior things.

28) Disorder can produce order (for example the “Big Bang” or explosions can result in Earth with all the life in it and all the countless ordered complexity with all it’s countless types of beautiful features and emotions.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

29) Low order can produce higher order (like how disorder can produce order).

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

30) Governments can’t keep secrets for longer than 40 years.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

31) Governments have never conspired against their citizens

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

32) Governments can’t conspire against their citizens.

No evidence for this belief, mountains against it.

33) You should doubt (be skeptical of) whatever you hear and see, especially those who make claims against Mainstream Science.

Why? Why not just use “science” to see if a thing is true without making up your mind first? Why assume? Is assuming scientific? Presuming and assuming are stupid and evil and anti-scientific. To teach a child to doubt everything except mainstream science sets them up for a pathological disorder like Insanity of Doubt, a mental disorder which Mainstreamers managed to erase from the psychology field. They are even trying to get rid of narcissism as a disorder, using the excuse that “it’s common,” which is not a logical reason. Child abuse is common, that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be looked at as illogical or immoral or be seen as good even. Something also to note is that “Skeptics” in ancient times were a group of pagan truth seekers. Mainstreamers however have hijacked it and made their own dishonest version of this group. Insanity of Doubt can lead to illogical behaviors, for example not doing something which is logical because you doubt it is logical and that you will be vilified, mocked, harassed or killed for doing the right thing. Teaching people to be skeptical leads them to develop a pathological avoidance of doing what is morally correct and logical, which includes learning what is morally correct and logical, let alone being moral and logical, out of fear of the previously mentioned things and out of doubt that it is useful to learn them.

34) Anyone who disagrees with mainstream science should be ignored, or laughed at or spoken out against, verbally harassed, lied about, physically abused or murdered.

Hence why many millions have been killed in the past 100 years, since Darwin-worship began. And there’s no evidence for belief 33, and evidence against it. Hence why science has largely stagnated and why little has been advanced in propulsion and energy, and why we are stuck on this pollution-accumulating planet.

35) Less intelligent people should be discriminated against.

Hence why many millions have been killed in the past 100 years, since Darwin-worship began. And there’s no evidence for belief 33, and evidence against it. Hence the Eugenics movement and the many forced sterilizations of Americans in the past.

36) If aliens did make it to Earth they would make it their goal to first meet with the mainstream scientists and peaceful leaders of the world, like President Obama.

Mainstreamers are filled with mentally ill people, and Obama is a big business pandering warmonger, just like the former Bush presidents.

37) The climate is getting more extreme and most of the land might mostly be under water one day, therefore, stop making any carbon dioxide and spend money to do so.

But according to the implication of the Mainstreamer Science religion, we’ll evolve to live under water and some humans will be amphibous with something like gills or some other underwater breathing system, or did you forget your own “scientific” Waterworld movie? And without carbon dioxide all plants will die. If all plants die, about every other living thing would die and all the eart would be desert, mud or rock. I’d rather live under water. It’s also unlikely: With humans needing more and more water, they’d eventually begin mining ice and creating more desalinization plants, and using slave labor if they had to, unless there was something to stop them from doing so, so the water would end up in us, animals, plants, us, goods requiring water and containers, not wasted into the ocean. I bet it would be cheaper and more productive to build nuclear powerplants and nuclear powered drill machines to colonize Antarctica and Greenland and make heat radiating cities to turn the ice and snow into water than can be used for drinking, food and technology. Or is it better for them to remain under ice forever, while the warmer lands gets more expensive and more polluted? No, it’s not better.

38) There are too many humans on the planet, and there should only be allowed to be a billion or less for all time.

There’s no evidence that there are too many humans. There’s plenty of land left to grow food on and plenty of underwater land to build underwater buildings in and we can build colonies on the Moon and Mars and space stations. But the jealous, greedy, pleasure-addicted and God-hating, joy-killing, “if we can’t have fun then no one can” Mainstream Scientists are deliberately discouraging it, which is why it isn’t done, and why everyone is mislead into devoting their money and energy into living only on land, and suffering for it.

In conclusion, mainstream scientists are a willfully ignorant cult who hinder and crush other scientists and threads of other scientific fields without a logic reason, like Medical Scientists and Medical Science and Creation Scientists and Creation Science, and who endanger lives and kill people (over 260,000,000 deaths, millions of whom were unborn babies). They are part of the reason that the public doesn’t have anti-gravity or zero-point energy technology and why there is a constant increasing flow of crime and illogical behavior and increasing pathological mental disorders like narcissism, sociopathism, and psychopathism. Those who support mainstream scientists or their bad logic and propaganda are also part of the reason that these things have happened and are still happening. They are part of the reason that many cures for sicknesses and diseases are suppressed, lost or no longer known about. They are part of the reason millions of children are suffering in the USA and a billion more outside of America. They are part the reason the world is in poverty. The people who fund them are also part of the reason, and the leaders over them, and the leader of them, which is Satan.

They are deliberately ignorant of and fight against and shun the facts, including what correct morality is (obedience to whatever laws Jesus said are still to be obeyed) when they see it. Therefore, they should be fought against and shunned and not be given any funding. They are a hypocritical, deceptive, misleading, body-destroying, parasitic cult just like Karl Marx cults, Scientology, Raeleanism and other UFO cults. Those who are against Mainstreamers should set up their own.

Note: Michio and Einstein are not atheists, nor do they fit perfectly into Maintream Scientism because of this, though the Mainstream Media, who have the same leaders as the MS’s, try to spin them as being Mainstreamers. Spinoza, who some might consider one of the gods of Mainstreamers, also was not an atheist. All three believe God caused and directed the formation of the universe. Michio speaks through Einstein to let the world know this, and to keep his job and Mainstreamers from harassing him. I also have not said that all Mainstreamers are equally bad, and hate God so much that they can feel that hatred. Some hate him, but don’t think about him, and so their hatred is like someone who hates a person that they don’t think about.

These are a list of prominent scientists who are either haven’t conformed to the Mainstream Science or who are not promoters of atheism (which is done by the most hardened Mainstreamers), but who haven’t been rejected by them (probably because these scientists have so much credentials and credibility with the masses that to do so would causes mainstream scientists to be seen for what they really are: an extremist anti-God cult, and then rejected by most people):

Arthur C. Clark (whose faith wavered about God’s existence and who wouldn’t mock those who weren’t Mainstreamers, at least not in an obvious way)
Albert Einstein (a deist creationist, whose “scientific” theory was unfortunately has been a great hindrance to science and religion, and one of the greatest next to Darwinian Evolutionary Theory and Freudian Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy)
Michio Kaku (who said on Coast to Coats AM, “the Bible is a scientific book”)
William R. Corliss (who points out how evolutionists ignore “ooparts” and make absurd reasons for it)
Maurice Allais
Stanton Friedman (who points out the absurd reasons Mainstreamers use to explain away the significance of UFOs)
Stephen Hawking (a prominent handicapped physicist who is against atheism, though still panders to atheists)
Thomas Edison (a creationist, but was also a schemer with little conscience)
Dr. Andrew Wakefield (a British former surgeon and medical researcher known for his independant exposure of the causative connection between the measles, mumps and the rubella (MMR) vaccine, autism and autistic enterocolitis. The hypocrite Mainstream Science Cult, atheist, liberal, frauds of Wikipedia and Conservapedia libel him as being a fraud based on a fraudulent news report from the Sunday Times reporter Brian Deer and the British General Medical Council (more Mainstreamers)).
Dr. Paul Connett (a Professor of Chemistry at St. Lawrence University who is an anti-fluoride activist who protests against the fluoridated public water supplies being forced on the public)
Michael Behe (a famous scientists whose book Darwin’s Black Box caused a huge controversy when it showed flaws in Darwinian beliefs)
Here is a huge list of scientists who are opposed to the physics knowledge filter caused by the Big Bang Propgandists: http://www.cosmologystatement.org
Martin Fleischmann ()
Dr. Stanley Pons ()
Bockris
Dr. Claude Allegre (“a top geophysicist and French Socialist who has authored more than 100 scientific articles and written 11 books and received numerous scientific awards including the Goldschmidt Medal from the Geochemical Society of the United States, converted from climate alarmist to skeptic in 2006”)
Bruno Wiskel (a geologist “of the University of Alberta recently reversed his view of man-made climate change and instead became a global warming skeptic. Wiskel was once such a big believer in man-made global warming that he set out to build a “Kyoto house” in honor of the UN sanctioned Kyoto Protocol which was signed in 1997”)

Here is a huge list of scientists opposed to the knowledge filter caused by Global Warming Propagandists:

There is also a famous writer, science educator, teacher, and philosopher named Loren Eiseley, who is not rejected by Mainstream Scientists, and he exposed Darwin as a credit thief who took most of his evolution theory from others, and changed it (by removing God) and adding that animals could turn into other animals or new kinds of animals (“species” was the word he used for “kind”, but confusingly it can also mean “type” and the word continues to be used ambiguously by Mainstreamers to this day).

Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called “consensus” on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.

The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee’s office of the GOP Ranking Member details the views of the scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom spoke out in 2007.

Even some in the establishment media now appear to be taking notice of the growing number of skeptical scientists. In October, the Washington Post Staff Writer Juliet Eilperin conceded the obvious, writing that climate skeptics “appear to be expanding rather than shrinking.” Many scientists from around the world have dubbed 2007 as the year man-made global warming fears “bite the dust.” (LINK) In addition, many scientists who are also progressive environmentalists believe climate fear promotion has “co-opted” the green movement. (LINK)

This blockbuster Senate report lists the scientists by name, country of residence, and academic/institutional affiliation. It also features their own words, biographies, and weblinks to their peer reviewed studies and original source materials as gathered from public statements, various news outlets, and websites in 2007. This new “consensus busters” report is poised to redefine the debate.

Many of the scientists featured in this report consistently stated that numerous colleagues shared their views, but they will not speak out publicly for fear of retribution. Atmospheric scientist Dr. Nathan Paldor, Professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, author of almost 70 peer-reviewed studies, explains how many of his fellow scientists have been intimidated.

“Many of my colleagues with whom I spoke share these views and report on their inability to publish their skepticism in the scientific or public media,” Paldor wrote. – Source

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