Demons Pretending to Be Angels and the Free Will Heresy

On Coast to Coast AM last night, George Noory had on “Doreen Virtue” which C2CAM says, “is a spiritual doctor of psychology and a fourth-generation metaphysician who works with the angelic, elemental, and ascended-master realms.” In other words, truthfully, “she communicates with demons which she has deluded herself into thinking are angels and so called ‘nature spirits'”. Doreen herself on the show acknowledged that demons can pretend to be angels and that people should not romance them for pleasure.

On the show, Doreen claimed that we must ask angels for help to get help from them, which reminded me of Mormons and other Free Will Christians, and suspected that that is why she said that, and then no surprise to me she confirmed it by saying that that was necessary or it would be a violation of our free will, however, she contradicted herself afterwards by saying that the only time they could help without our asking for it was “if it isn’t your time” (to die). It’s a contradiction because it implies that GOD’S WILL supersedes our own, and that isn’t compatible with the heretical “free will” nonsense teaching that I’ve been observing and learning about as I keep hearing the world talk about it. Basically, the world’s free will doctrine is that human free will is a sacred thing that must not be violated and that God won’t violate it (and many non-Christians believe that Earth aka Gaea and/or ‘Mother Nature’ also has a will of its/her own), yet, it’s a lie, and like so many lies, contradicts itself. Here is how it contradicts:

1) Wills are always in conflict everywhere, generally speaking, and depending on the personality of the ones who are not getting there way, it can lead to sin, crime, hateful arguing, rather than one side peacefully giving in to the other. So, to act like human’s wills can’t be violated as if it’s some physical law, is nonsense. It’s clearly observably wrong to claim our wills cannot be gone against successfully. Clearly not everyone’s will can be done as they want it to be done and there will always be unfilled will until there is perfect peace (which God says he will bring about, except in Hell). For the Free Will Christians who believe the Bible, who claim that God can’t go against our will, they are clearly wrong, since the Bible repeatedly claims God does that all the time. Some Christians try to brush that off with the ridiculous explanation that God isn’t really going against anyone’s will (how ridiculous!) when he punishes them, because they want to be punished. That is dumb, absolutely dumb. Sure, some people in bitterness say, “bring it on” or “I don’t care” but that’s because THEY DON’T KNOW THE WRATH in store for them. Like one proverb in the Bible says, “A servant cannot be corrected by mere words.” That (rebellious) servant can’t be corrected by mere talk because they aren’t feeling any pain and will especially dismiss warnings if they are feeling pleasure. It’s the same with a rebellious child or any person with a bad habit and who is having “a good time”: unless there is a painful negative consequence, emotionally or physically, they won’t stop. Further, why do so many people, when committing a crime, try to hide that they are committing a crime, or run when they think they are in danger of getting caught for that crime, or lie in court over whether they committed one or not? OBVIOUSLY, it’s because they don’t want to feel pain for what they did, not “BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE PUNISHED”. But in order to defend their backwards doctrine, that is how absurd and childish heretics must think: backwards, backwards to the point of embarrassing absurdity that even kids who aren’t brainwashed can recognize is obviously stupid and illogical reasoning that goes against what even stupid people know is stupid.

2) If God’s will is also sacred and cannot be violated, then how can everyone else’s will also be sacred and forbidden from being violated being that God’s will is often not the will of man or anything else? That is a clear contradiction. And it is obvious that if anyone’s will is going to always be done, it’s going to be the all-knowing all-powerful eternal Creator’s, not the created things that like ants compared to him. The Bible even says that God’s will is always done in Heaven, and has us pray that it will always be done on Earth, and even Jesus said to God, “…but your will (be done), not mine.” Doreen tried to dismiss the Bible and untrustworthy because, “it’s been rewritten many times,” the cliche attack of an ignoramus who doesn’t know or refuses to acknowledge that the Bible is backed up by many old copies of itself showing that it has been copied very accurately in all the places that matter most, and that there is no evidence of loss of text. Her logic is also wrong in what she implied, which was that many copies necessarily lead to errors. She also stupidly implied that God can’t preserve his own word. With such an unreliable God why does Doreen pretend to love and honor him and that he’s in control? If he can’t preserve his own word, his laws, his commands to love, then how can we? And why follow him if he can’t keep track of what he says or if we can’t? Again: contradictions. That is the lot of liars: lies and contradictions.

3) Why would there be an exception like Doreen claims, that “unless it’s “not your time” angels can’t help you”? Is it just because she said so? Because some angel supposedly told her so. And so what if one did? Can demons pretend to be angels? She herself said so, so then she cannot simply claim, “angels never lie.” And being that humans can repeatedly make the same mistakes and be deceived till death, for years, she can’t claim, especially as a religion-ignorant, which she clearly is, that she is undecievable, immune to be fooled, tricked. Further, some demons, not merely staying in one place and keeping to themselves, go out of there way to lie to humans and deceive them, and having lived for thousands of years, have mastered deception and know how humans react to all kinds of situations and suggestions. And how long has Doreen lived in comparison to such demons? She sure has not lived long enough to become a master of the truth, nor has she studied well enough as was indicated by her evil broadside attacks against Christians, like that they “blackmail” people into believing there religion and her illogical vague statement that “preaching fear” is negative energy (a meaningless statement) with the implication that that is bad. And guess what Doreen is doing by making those claims? According to her vague nonsense, she’s also “preaching fear”. It’s also a clear lie to claim as she did, that all Christians do is talk about fear. Truly she’s a lying ignoramus. Who doesn’t know that millions of Christians have said and still do, “God is love” or “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life” or “love your neighbor as yourself” or “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” or “love your enemies” and “bless those who curse you” and the most famous of all, “Do unto others as you would have them do to you,” all of which are verses from the Bible. Yet she slanders all Christians, including the children, as “preach”ers “of fear” and negativity. Clearly it’s Doreen who is the preacher of fear and negativity by mainly focusing on what she perceives are “negative” things about Christians and mainly finding fault with them, when clearly they have done much good and continue to do so (I’m talking about true Christians, but even Free Will ones do some good, though at the expense of the truth about how to get saved and to lead people away from true salvation, though not all realize they are misleading people).

4) Doreen Virtue also made clearly wrong claims, which is that angels can’t help you unless you ask for it: but as she herself would know, angels are always helping people without them asking for it, and some don’t even believe in angels when they are helped by them. Many people also don’t pray for the help of angels, but ask for God’s help, knowing that he uses angels to do things for him, yet Doreen says to pray to the angels. Why would you pray to the angels rather than God who is in control of them? If you want a coworker to be friendly to you or to help you who is in a different state, do you pray to the coworker or to God? But Doreen hates God, so refuses to go to him for help, but instead wants to worship what he created.

5) Concerning again Doreen’s claim that angels need our permission to help us, how can she say that when surely she hears stories all the time of people being helped by angels and not knowing they were angels or being helped without asking? That could be seen a deliberate deception or insanity for her to ignore what she repeatedly sees contradicts her “free will” belief, which is really about pride and a childish attitude of rebellion towards God. And if angels need our permission, then doesn’t God? Does God need our permission for anything? Obviously to say he does is stupid. That’s lying say that I need the permission of a toy I made, even a living one with a mind, to do anything to it, or that a parent needs the permission of the child to move it somewhere, teach it something, feed it something, give it a gift, love it or even talk to it (which leads to a paradox: how can you ask for permission to talk without first talking if not given permission to talk?) And if a parent doesn’t need its the permission of its children for anything but a few exceptions, how much less does God the creator and sustainer of all things need it? And consider the evil consequences of this free will logic, at least Doreen’s: Humans must ask each other for permission to help each other in all circumstances, including to save each others lives. Consider how many more people in the world would be ignorant, sad, injured and dead from such a law. But many people realize the evil of such bad logic, and have made “good Samaritan” type laws as are mentioned on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law. It’s noteworthy that Wikipedia however, doesn’t point out the origin of such laws: God’s word.

“Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.” – Colossians 2:18

“the devil took [Yeshua] to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” – Matthew 4:8-10

“I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.” – 2 Corinthians 11:12-14

“who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?” – Romans 9:20-21

Update: 6-16-2011

Yesterday, after having written the above (except Romans 9:20-21 which I added while adding this note), I finally realized the solution to what was a long and great mystery to me: “Is the human will and all wills “random” (because random would seem to be the result of ‘not controlled’, in other words, not a machine that is just programming or being moved around by God directly or indirectly), and is randomness necessary, and if random, how could God predict what would happen in the future correctly? And is a random will necessary for self-awareness and responsibility for the actions of the person who makes choices using their will?” God’s word had the answer all along. First of all, it makes it clear that God predestines everything (and the claim that God doesn’t predestine anyone to Hell is stupid). God doesn’t destine some things and others allow to be loose, random and free to do whatever. Second, there is no evidence that a will must be random in order for a person to be aware of themselves and that their choices and to be responsible for them.

“To humans belong the plans of the heart” – Proverbs 16:1

“A person’s steps are directed by Yahweh” – Proverbs 20:24

“In Yahweh’s hand the king’s heart is a stream of water that he channels toward all who please him.” – Proverbs 21:1

Atheists Fail at Logic

Post link: logicfails.tk

The Corrupt Logic of Anti-Christian Atheists

Recently, while studying logic and trying to find references, I’ve noticed that Google has been giving biased search engine results by entirely showing logic fallacy lists that are only supportive of atheism as a whole. For example, about.com lists its logic fallacy list within in atheist web page; how is it NOT a logic fallacy to associate atheism with being logical and theists illogical MERELY BECAUSE AN ATHEIST IS REPEATING LOGIC FALLACIES AND ONLY OR ALMOST ENTIRELY PREJUDICES THE EXAMPLES AGAINST THEISM, TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF THEISTS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO MAKE MISTAKES? Aren’t those acts indicating circular reasoning and ad hominem within the minds of those copying and pasting these lists? Isn’t that deliberately conniving, bitter, deception? IT’S CALLED “LYING”.

Here is another example, a blatant one, in which a former psychology professor at Shippensburg University, George Boeree, copy-pasted a fallacy list and contradicted one of the fallacies using hate speech against theists, which Shippensburg University has sanctioned by hosting:

“We must encourage our youth to worship God to instill moral behavior.”

But does religion and worship actually produce moral behavior? Of course not!

This hack philosopher, WITH NO DEGREE IN PHILOSOPHY LET ALONE LOGIC, who copied and pasted a fallacy list and made it anti-theistic, made a circular argument himself: he’s making a personal attack against religion (ad hominem) and is committing the fallacy of “appealing to obviousness” by his weasel word: “of course not!” and committing the fallacy of “appealing to emotion” by using an exclamation mark. He’s also indirectly committing the fallacy of “appealing to authority” by implying that his mere word as a former professor with a degree in psychology and whatever works he’s written (which are obscure, and not authoritative, so he’s being a vain hypocrite on top of all this). On top of that, this moron is obviously ignorant about religion BECAUSE his statement is grammatically nonsensical: worship is apart of religion, and he spoke as if they were two entirely different things. His error is analogous too this statement, “But does eating apples and apple pieces actually produce nutrients in the body?” On top of that he even showed with the biased example he thought up, that he understands religion and worship to be intertwined, because the example doesn’t say, “religion”! Talk about eating your own words! Some professor eh? As usual, the accusations of Satan’s children punch them right back in their deceiving mouths.

The oldest logical fallacy list on the Internet is hosted by Georgia State University, from 1992, notice it makes NO REFERENCE TO GOD, which shows that it was deliberately used for propaganda by atheists (I put the title in bold):

LOGICAL FALLACIES

I’ve been bothered for a number of years, really for most of my adult life, by how poorly individuals will construct their arguments in everyday life and in academic debate. Along the way, I stumbled upon a collection of fallacies (see references) that I’ve found to be a convenient yard-stick by which to critique others’ arguments. They are offered here in a hypertext form that I originally wrote to be read by my PalmPilot personal digital assistant (PDA).. – Art

Fallacies of Relevance

Accident
Affirmation of the Consequent
Argumentum ad Antiquitam
Argumentum ad Baculum (appeal to force)
Argumentum ad Crumenam
Argumentum ad Hominem (abusive)
Argumentum ad Hominem (circumstantial)
Argumentum ad Ignoratiam (argument from ignorance)
Argumentum ad Lazarum
Argumentum ad Misericordiam (appeal to pity)
Argumentum ad Nauseum
Argumentum ad Novitam
Argumentum ad Numeram
Argumentum ad Populam
Argumentum ad Verecundiam (appeal to authority)
Bifrucation
Complex Question
Converse Accident (hasty generalization)
Denial of the Antecedent
Dicto Simpliciter – Sweeping Generalization
Fallacy of Interrogation
False Analogy
False Cause
Hasty Generalization
Ignoratio Elenchi
Non Causa Pro Causa
Non-Sequitur
Petitio Principii (begging the question)
Plurium Interrogationum – Many Questions
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc
Quaternio Terminorum
Red Herring
Reification
Shifting the Burden of Proof
Special Pleading
Straw Man
Tu Quoque – Two Wrongs Make a Right

Fallacies of Ambiguity

Equivocation
Amphiboly
Accentus – Accent
Composition
Division

Fallacies of Correlation

Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc

Affirmation of the Consequent.

Description: An argument from the truth of a hypothetical statement, and the truth of the consequent to the truth of the antecedent. In the syllogism below, P is the antecedent and Q is the consequent: P implies Q Q is true <– Affirming the consequent ______________ Therefore: P is true.

Argumentum ad Antiquitam.

Description: A fallacy of asserting that something is right or good simply because it is old; that is, because "that's the way it's always been."

Argumentum ad Baculum (appeal to force).

The arguer appeals to force or the threat of force to compel acceptance of the conclusion.

Argumentum ad Crumenam.

Description: Fallacy of believing that money is a criterion of correctness; that those with more money are more likely to be right.

Argumentum ad Hominem (abusive).

"The phrase argumentum ad hominem translates literally as 'argument directed to the man.'" The abusive variety occurs when one attacks the other person rather than the other persons argument.

. Argumentum ad Hominem (circumstantial).

In this case, one tries to convince the opponent to agree to the conclusion based on the opponents circumstances. For example (from Copi), a hunter may claim an anti-hunter must say hunting is acceptable since the anti-hunter is not a vegetarian.

Argumentum ad Ignoratiam (argument from ignorance).

* "The fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam is illustrated by the argument that there must be ghosts because no one has ever been able to prove that there aren't any."
* The argument that something must be true simply because it hasn't been proved to be false, or vice versa.

Argumentum ad Lazarum

Description: A fallacy of assuming that because someone is poor he or she is sounder or more virtuous than one who is wealthier. This fallacy is the opposite of the informal fallacy "argumentum ad crumenam."

Argumentum ad Misericordiam (appeal to pity).

The arguer appeals to pity where the conclusion is a matter of reason and not one of sentiment, e.g. referring to a murder suspect's dependent family.

Argumentum ad Nauseum.

Description: The incorrect belief that an assertion is more likely to be true the more often it is heard. An "argumentum ad nauseum" is one that employs constant repitition in asserting a truth.

Argumentum ad Novitam.

Description: A fallacy of asserting that something is more correct simply because it is new or newer than something else. Or that something is better because it is newer. This type of fallacy is the opposite of the "argumentum ad antiquitam" fallacy.

Argumentum ad Numeram.

Description: A fallacy that asserts that the more people who support or believe a proposition then the more likely that that proposition is correct; it equates mass support with correctness.

Argumentum ad Populam.

"the attempt to win popular assent to a conclusion by arousing the emotions and enthusiasms of the multitude, rather than by appeal to the relevant facts."

Argumentum ad Verecundiam (appeal to authority).

This is especially the appeal to authority outside the field of that authority's expertise. In the field of the authority's expertise, "this method of argument is in many cases perfectly legitimate, for the reference to an admitted authority in the special field of that authority's competence may carry great weight and constitute relevant evidence. … Although it does not prove the point, it certainly tends to support it."

Accident.

"The fallacy of accident consists in applying a general rule to a particular case whose 'accidental' circumstances render the rule inapplicable." For instance, while generally one should not exceed the speed limit, it is acceptable for emergency vehicles to do so.

Bifrucation.

Description: Also referred to as the "black and white" fallacy, bifurcation is the presentation of a situation or condition with only two alternatives, whereas in fact other alternatives exist or can exist.

Complex Question.

* This is a question of the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" variety.
* Arguing based on a response, or assumed response, to a complex or "loaded" question, where no simple yes or no response is reasonable — "have you stopped beating your wife?" "will you vote for the Republicans and prosperity?"

Converse Accident (hasty generalization).

Making a general rule based on a few atypical cases. For instance, considering the effect of alcohol only on those who indulge to excess, and concluding that liquor is harmful and should be outlawed.

Denial of the Antecedent.

Description: An argument in which one infers the falsity of the consequent from the truth of a hypothetical proposition, and the falsity of its antecedent. P implies Q Not-P ____________ Therefore: Not-Q.

Dicto Simpliciter – Sweeping Generalization.

Description: Sweeping Generalization occurs when a general rule is applied to a particular situation in which the features of that particular situation render the rule inapplicable. A sweeping generalization is the opposite of a hasty generalization.

Fallacy of Interrogation.

Description: The question asked has a presupposition which the answerer may wish to deny, but which he/she would be accepting if he/she gave anything that would count as an answer. Any answer to the question "Why does such-and-such happen?" presupposes that such-and-such does indeed happen.

False Analogy.

* Description: An analogy is a partial similarity between the like features of two things or events on which a comparison can be made.
* A false analogy involves comparing two things that are NOT similar.
* Note that the two things may be similar in superficial ways, but not with respect to what is being argued.

False Cause.

* This is mistaking a event to be the cause of some other event.
* Arguing that one event causes another on the basis merely that it occurs earlier, or more generally mistaking what is not the cause of something as its cause. For instance, arguing that beating of drums causes the sun to reappear after after an eclipse by citing that every time drums have been so beaten the sun has reappeared.

Hasty Generalization

Description: An argument in which a proposition is used as a premise without attention given to some obvious condition that would affect the proposition's application. This fallacy is also known as the "hasty generalization." It is a fallacy that takes evidence from several, possibly unrepresentative, cases to a general rule; generalizing from few to many. Note the relation to statistics: Much of statistics concerns whether or not a sample is representative of a larger population. The larger the sample size, the better the representativeness. Note also that the opposite of a hasty generalization is a sweeping generalization.

Ignoratio Elenchi.

* Description: An argument that is supposed to prove one proposition but succeeds only in proving a different one. Ignoratio elenchi stands for "pure and simple irrelevance."
* An argument which supports one conclusion is made to prove a different conclusion.
* Copi's example is a legislator who, in discussing a housing bill, argues only that decent housing for all is desirable, rather than whether the bill in question would achieve that goal.

Non Causa Pro Causa.

Description: An argument to reject a proposition because of the falsity of some other proposition that seems to be a consequence of the first, but really is not.

Non-Sequitur.

Description: An argument in which the conclusion is not a necessary consequence of the premises. Another way of putting this is: A conclusion drawn from premises that provide no logical connection to it.

Petitio Principii (begging the question).

* The conclusion of an argument is contained in one of the premises assumed.
* Assuming the truth of one's proposal as a premise for the conclusion one is trying to prove.

Plurium Interrogationum – Many Questions.

Description: A demand for a simple answer to a complex question.

Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc.

Description: An argument from a premise of the form "A preceded B" to a conclusion of the form "A caused B." Simply because one event precedes another event in time does not mean that the first event is the cause of the second event. This argument resembles a fallacy known as a Hasty Generalization.

Quaternio Terminorum.

Description: An argument of the syllogistic form in which there occur four or more terms. In a standard categorical syllogism there are only three terms: a subject, a predicate, and a middle term.

Red Herring.

Description: A fallacy when irrelevant material is introduced to the issue being discussed, such that everyone's attention is diverted away from the points being made, and toward a different conclusion. It is not logically valid to divert a chain of reasoning with extraneous points.

Reification.

Description: To reify something is to convert an abstract concept into a concrete thing. Reification is a Fallacy of Ambiguity. Reification is also sometimes known as a fallacy of "hypostatization".

Shifting the Burden of Proof.

Description: The burden of proof is always on the person making the assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of "argumentum ad ignorantium," is a fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.

Special Pleading.

Description: Special pleading is a logical fallacy wherein a double standard is employed by the person making the assertion. Special pleading typically happens when one insists upon less strict treatment for the argument he/she is making than he or she would make when evaluating someone else's arguments.

Straw Man.

Description: It is a fallacy to misrepresent someone else's position for the purposes of more easily attacking it, then to knock down that misrepresented position, and then to conclude that the original position has been demolished. It is a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that one has made.

Tu Quoque – Two Wrongs Make a Right.

Description: Two wrongs never add up to a right; you cannot right a wrong by applying yet another wrong. Such a fallacy is a misplaced appeal to consistency. It is a fallacy because it makes no attempt to deal with the subject under discussion.

AMBIGUITY.

Description: An argument in the course of which at least one term is used in different senses. Also known as equivocation. There are several types of "fallacies of ambiguity," including REIFICATION, EQUIVOCATION, AMPHIBOLY, COMPOSITION, DIVISION, and ACCENTUS.

Equivocation.

* Using the same word in two different senses.
* A fallacy arising from the ambiguity or multiplicity of possible interpretations of a repeated word or phrase. "An elephant is an animal, therefore a small elephant is a small animal".

Amphiboly.

* Arguing from premises which are ambiguous due to their grammatical construction.
* An argument whose premises contain statements with grammatical constructions capable of being interpreted in more than one way. Classical example: "if Croesus went to war with Cyrus, he would destroy a mighty kingdom". Based on that advice Croesus went to war with Cyrus and in so doing destroyed a mighty kingdom: his own.

Accent.

* Stressing a word in a sentence which thereby changes the meaning.
* An argument based on a change in meaning through emphasis or accent. "we should not speak ill of our friends", unaccented, may be valid, while by accenting the last word the implication is added that it may be acceptable to speak ill of others. Similarly, quoting or emphasizing something out of context ("the captain was sober today").

Composition.

* Attributing to the whole the properties of the parts.
* Reasoning fallaciously from the attributes of the parts of a whole to the attributes of the whole itself: "all of the parts of this machine are light, therefore the machine itself is light". Or, to infer that what may be said of a term distributively may be said of the term collectively: "a bus uses more gasoline than a car, therefore buses use more gasoline than cars".

Division.

* Attributing to the parts the properties of the whole.
* The reverse of composition: reasoning from the attributes of a whole to the attributes of its parts, or inferring that what may be true of a term collectively is true distributively. "HP is a very important company; I am an HP employee; therefore I am very important"; "Dogs are frequently seen in the streets; Afghan hounds are dogs; therefore Afghan hounds are frequently seen in the streets".

Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.

Description: A fallacy of correlation that links events because they occur simultaneously; one asserts that because two events occur together they are causally related, and leaves no room for other factors that may be the cause(s) of the events. This fallacy is similar to the "post hoc" fallacy.

Reference:

1. Message-ID: Sender: netnews@apollo.hp.com (USENET posting account) Nntp-Posting-Host: avatar_r.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1992 18:05:01 GMT .
2. From: jsanders@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Justin M. Sanders) Newsgroups: alt.atheism,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Definition Time — Strawman Date: 25 Apr 1992 10:42:00 -0500 Organization: Kansas State University Lines: 105 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu.
3. From: bcushman@envy.Reed.Edu (Ben Cushman)Newsgroups: sci.philosophy.meta,talk.philosophy.misc Subject: Re: catalog of everyday fallacies? (long) Message-ID: Date: 26 Apr 92 23:39:51 GMT Article-I.D.: reed.1992Apr26.233951.29296 References: Sender: news@reed.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR.

Update 2/14/2011:

At about 9 AM I decided to study logic a little more. And discovered more evidence of atheists hijacking the original logic fallacy list, from an apparent atheist named Zack Smith, who, I wonder, if coincidentally, is using a .tk domain to direct people to his propaganda website on logic, atheism and religion, which was last worked on in 2010, the year I wrote up this post. More suspicious is that he does not say when he last edited it. It’s suspicious to me because he’s using topics on my website and the redirect is close to the one I use, and hides credit, just like the other atheists who parrot the list. Translation: I wonder if he’s stolen credit from me too. Here is my reply to what I found on the part of his website on with those subjects:

Zack: if information-avoidance (concerning what is morally right from wrong) is a sin in your arbitrary illogical rulebook, (and it is in the Bible: the most popular and most influential spoken and gathered information in the world, which YOU AVOID), why then do you hide your email from your atheism propaganda pages, and not only that, not tell people something as important as to WHERE YOUR TRUNCATED FALLACY LIST ORIGINATED FROM, OR FACTS CONCERNING THE HELPFULNESS OF THE BIBLE FOR LIVING A PEACEFUL, LOGICAL AND PROGRESSIVE LIFE?

And lest you claim you did provide your email, I’ve saved your pages.

And religion isn’t “a mind virus”, it’s a method of worship; it’s a logical fallacy to over-generalize, a fallacy which you illogically and deliberately did not include in “your” arbitrary credit-robbing fallacy list. Further: do you know who the father of biology is, bitter Mr. Religion is Mind Virus? Don’t avoid that information Mr. I Love Truth. Hint: wain’t your father Deluded Darwin who spread is mental virus called Darwinian Evolution which is used as an excuse by every God-hater whether they call themselves Christian or not to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, covet, blaspheme, forget that God worked to give eternal life freely, and to dishonor their parents. You do recognize those list of wrongs don’t you atheist, Mr. All Religion Is Bad For Your Mind and There is No God? Yeah: none of those things, not even murdering babies or abusing children is wrong, WRONG.

It’s also a false argument when you DO NOT SHOW INFORMATION THAT REFUTES YOURS AND PRETEND THAT YOU ARE RIGHT BY EXCLUDING SUCH INFORMATION.

As for strawmen, why don’t you point out that many Christians don’t claim that atheism is a religion, let alone a spreading one, BUT THAT HUMANISTIC ATHEISM IS? Yet you point out that strawman arguments are bad. And are weasel arguments fallicious in your mind either? If I point out the arguments made by atheists which only have bad grammar or who are very poor in school or who are mentally ill, would I be being a “weasel”? Would I be AVOIDING INFORMATION? Be ashamed you liar. Stop being a bitter, fault-finder and hypocrite and avoiding information and restoring to lies, hiding truth and misleading to make yourself feel better.

Here’s an excellent example of atheists biasing the logic fallacy list, using examples from Zack the infantile copy-paster:

Genetic Fallacy

Here, the source or origin of a claim is discredited or bolstered in order allege that the claim itself is false or true.
It comes from the bible and the bible is the word of Yahweh therefore it must be true.
That research was done in China therefore it must be full of errors and crap data.

Legitimacy From Effort.

This religion has taken millenia to get built up therefore you should believe in god.
It took years for Microsoft to produce Windows therefore we should use it.
It took years for the seagulls to cover the rocks completely with shit therefore it is pretty like a Jackson Pollack painting.
It took years for such-and-such minority to build up their own separatist subculture therefore members should not interact with outsiders and they deserve respect.

In the Genetic fallacy, Parrot Zack uses an incorrect example, and showing his hatred of those who are religious, blasphemes God’s name to make himself look wise (if you show deep hatred for someone let alone hatred at all while claiming to be teaching the truth, that makes what you say suspect as being false Zack; that’s obvious), which is that to say that if Yahweh said it is true that it must be. Parrot: Yahweh doesn’t lie as is shown by the historical accuracy of the Bible and eye witness testimony to the things it says exist and that still happen. If you’d like to attempt to cure yourself of your insanity of doubt try sleeping next to a knife in various houses haunted by violent demons. Keep in mind that you deserve to die if one of them attempts you; don’t blaspheme after being hurt by one being that it will be your own fault to sleep with demons. Notice also how Parrot Zack weasels in the example of China, a communist dictatorship. Zack, are you aware communist atheists with the silence or aid of humanistic atheists murdered or indirectly murdered 250 million people in the last 100 years, the most killed by any group and in that short a time, AND AFTER THE SUPPOSED AGE OF FREE-THINKING AND ENLIGHTENMENT BROUGHT ON BY ATHEISTS? That’s not evolution Mr. Pretentious Genetics, that’s thinning the genetics humans have to work with to continue to survive and be fit and to adapt. Humanistic Communism is evil Zack, stop denying that murder is wrong, let alone murder of those who disagree with the personal feelings of others. Murder exists Zack, just like Yahweh who forbids. Psychopathic parroting, truth-twisting and disgust won’t change that.

In Zack’s Legitimacy From Effort fallacy he put’s first as an example “This religion has taken millenia to get built up therefore you should believe in god.” How about also adding, “Pagan Roman, Catholic Roman, Muslims, and Chinese, Vietnamese, Russian and Baltic Communist atheists fought to suppress, oppress and murder millions of Christians and those who spoke out against their gods who were no gods, therefore you shouldn’t trust in Yahweh.”? How about these ones: “If it survives it must be fit.” or “If it survives it must be best.” Or “If it survives it must be right.” Or “If it survives it must be just.” Or, “If it took millions of years to evolve it must be best.” Do any of those lines of reasoning sound familiar, hypocrite? Strange you don’t use any of them as examples but rather some arrogant biased rants with a snotty fanboy tone.

Or how about including these examples somewhere: “A man looks like a monkey, therefore one of them must have come from the other.” Or, “A bird looks like a giant lizard, therefore one of them must have come from the other.” Or, “Because animals look alike they must have all biologically have come from a single thingy.” Or, “If there is a column of animals in the order of little to big big animals then big animals must have come from little animals.” Do you know what types of logical fallacies those fall under, Mr. Logical?

That’s your fallacious logic blind Zack who magnifies his error in his one eye that can see with a false lens.

It’s also a logical fallacy to think that because you point out right from wrong that you must therefore be wise in morality and moral, yet clearly you’re neither, but rather a parasitic parrot.

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That’s the end of my reply. I’m trying to finish with a book on logic and arguments against religion which I mostly finished last year, but I wanted to add another argument I remembered about three days ago, refuting in my original version of the book in 2005 or 2006, which was on a justification for homosexuality, and then yesterday I think, remembered another, on God supposedly wrongly treating us like children, which I also refuted. Ironically one of the logical fallacies Zack listed in his list, one which I didn’t remember having read and thinking about is the basis points out the error of this justification for homosexuality (but doesn’t explain why it’s wrong, no surprise being that Zack is merely parroting without little to no understanding or critical after-thought on what he’s talking about). I wasn’t going to mention that I’d never read it because I think I already did in my book, but after commenting about the homosexuality argument and seeing it tied into it; it was too strange to not mention. Divine coincidence I call it. The logic fallacy Zack listed which I’m talking about, I personally call it the The Superiority or Inferiority/Moral Characteristics/Relation by Origin Fallacy, at the moment. If it’s in my book already I don’t remember whatever term I have for it in there. I’ll try to update this post later to point out if I already mentioned it in my unpublished book, for history.

“How do ye say, ‘We are wise, and the law of Yahweh is with us? Lo: certainly in vain made he made it’: rather it is the pen of the scribes that lies.” – Jeremiah 8:8

Knight’s Theorom: A Proof and Formula for Knowing the True Religion

It occurred to me at about 9:25 P.M., while thinking about a refutation against Hinduism I’ve been writing and then thinking why it was so easy to refute various religions, and then thought that it was because there were so few variables, and remembered how one of the few and main variables is, “There is no absolute truth” which is self refuting. I then realized that religions which teach the opposite, like the Hindu religion, are self-refuting because that is indirectly saying, “Religions which say that Hinduism is false are also correct religions.” Obviously if you’re saying, “It’s true that I am wrong about how to achieve perfect lasting peace,” then you are admitting to being in error about how to achieve lasting perfect peace. Catholicism, a pagan Christianity, is also self-refuting as it accepts healthy adult persons and religions which are ignorant of the Bible or gospel, that would include religions against Catholicism, religious people who would kill Catholics and any other opposing religion without listening to reason (like “Fundamentalist” Muslims would do). Even traditionalist Catholic religions like Mel Gibson’s accept as good and would allow eternal life for those who ignorant of the gospel and yet tend to increasing destructiveness. Arminian Christian religions like Interfaith, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian in USA, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Free Will so and so, liberal churches and certain so called non-denominational Arminian ones (which is incorrectly taught as meaning “is not like other churches because they it doesn’t have the same name”, wrong because obviously you can have a different name but the same or basically the same main beliefs as other churches) are also accepting of adult ignorants.

So, formulas for judging what the so called “true religion” if any, would be:

1) If  (religion) A says “There is no absolute truth” (in other words everything is false) then A is also false.

2) If (religion) A says (religion) B is a true religion and (religion) B says (religion) A is a false religion then (religion) A is a false religion because it says (religion) B is correct about (religion) A being a false (religion).

3) If (person or religion) B says “no person is true (or: “is not truthful”; “is not correct”; “is not real”) then (person or religion) B is not true (or: “is not truthful”; “is not correct”; “is not real”).

4) If C says C is false and true than C is false.

5) If D says D is true and only itself and A, B, and C false than D is true.

C could be replaced with “Islam” because in the Quran it teaches that all Muslims will go to Heaven, but it also says that all Muslims will go to Hell, and even if you don’t believe that, then it still fails, because all Muslims know that the Quran teaches that the Bible is God’s word, and the Bible excludes all religions except one. Any Christian religion that contradicts the method of salvation in the Bible some way while claiming that the Bible is entirely true can also be placed in C, because it’s refuting itself, and that would include every Arminian-compatible Christian sect (who teach forgiveness and God’s love can be earned or kept with good deeds, which the Bible either implies or directly says is impossible in some way, both in the Old and New Testament).

There is only one religion that I know of that excludes all other self-refuting and universalist-type religions (like Catholic, Arminian, Universalist, Interfaith, Hindu and Buddhist ones) that is not self-refuting and only accepts itself as the true religion, and that is the one which is known as Calvinism (though those who are Calvinists don’t always call themselves Calvinists, but may call themselves Reformed Christian, Baptist, Presbyterian, or Christian or non-denominational. That doesn’t mean that anyone calling themselves by those names is what they calling themselves however. Calvinism teaches that there is only one specific way to know the truth, be truthful and have eternal perfect peace and says what it is specifically (unlike all other religions), which you can learn here: https://eternian.wordpress.com/life

…when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth… – Arthur Conan Doyle

post link: http://truthproof.tk