Archive for April, 2012

Feeding Hummingbirds: Honey and Sugar

This is an example of what happens when you parrot something without checking the facts and simply believing a thing because it sounds scientific or by committing the fallacy of appeal to authority, concensus, emotion and committing the fallacy of assuming. I found a thread on GardenWeb started by an Alicia on whether or not feeding honey to hummingbirds is truly an unsafe thing or not (I injected my replies under the name “chosenbygrace”:

From Alicia, (hummerwatcher) “I found in the FAQ for this forum the following statement: “A honey water solution served up in hummingbird feeders can quickly become toxic and deadly. Honey rapidly ferments and also cultures a deadly bacterium. Contrary to popular belief, honey is not “more natural” than the cane sugar that is sold as white sugar. Honey has been chemically altered by honey bees: it is flower nectar and whatever ever else the honey bee ingested, digested, and spit back out again. Honey is nothing like the sucrose found in flower nectar and white sugar.”

I have fed a solution of pure honey/water in my hummingbird feeders for 12 of the 27 years I’ve maintained the feeders. I’ve noticed no ill effects on the apparently happy, healthy and certainly populous hummers who live, breed, nest, fight, flee, dipsy-dive, display, perch, torpor, twitter/screech and otherwise carry on as hummers do around here from April to October each year. I first started using dilute honey as hummer feed after I noticed hummers feeding from an open-source feeder I had placed near my garden beehives one Spring day (a modified chick feeder with an inverted quart jar of feed solution).

I have not observed any difference between the fermentation proclivities of honey/water as compared with cane or beet sugar/water solutions. Nor have I observed any greater tendency to culture bacteria or fungi… Of course, cleanliness of feeders and frequent sterilization are a given when feeding hummingbirds.

Is there a specific bacterium which a honey/water solution will culture and not refined white sugar/water?

I would like to know if anyone has any serious data on feeding honey solution to hummingbirds. Is there any scientific, physiological, biological chemical-analysis research to back-up the broad, generalized and somewhat inaccurate statements made in the FAQ quote shown above? (Honeybees neither ‘digest’ plant nectars, nor ‘spit back out’ the nectar… they do add certain enzymes to the nectar while carrying it in their ‘honey stomach’… and, yes, the nectars are, therefore, chemically different from the pure plant nectars. But pure plant nectars — the natural and best of hummer food — are also quite different chemically from monosource and chemically-refined cane or beet sugars.)

I will appreciate any well-researched information which anyone here might offer on this subject. Even anecdotal observations…

If someone can show to me that feeding honey/water solution is harmful to the hummers, I will, naturally, have to re-assess what I have been doing these past 12 years… with no apparent ill effects.

Alicia … a hummer feeder and watcher since 1981 … a beekeeper since 1970″ birding_nut, “From what I understand from doing a search on google, honey contains a fungus (unsure of the type) that can be transferred to a hummingbirds tongue and could prove fatal. However, I couldn’t find an actual research study cited. I do know that you are not suppose to feed honey to human babies under the age of 1-year because honey may contain the harmful bacterium Clostridium botulinum which causes a rare case of food poisoning.”

And peanuts can also cause rare cases of allergic reactions. What’s your point, ban peanuts?

birding_nut “I would guess that hummingbirds would be susceptible to this as well,”

There’s bacteria everywhere that rarely kills animals, that doesn’t mean don’t feed them food that rarely kills, that’s plain dumb and an appeal to inneffiency just like the greenies would have, ironically, millions or billions of people die to switch entirely to solar panels from oil.

“since the type C form of this bacteria is what causes huge die-offs of waterfowl”

hummers are not waterfowl, nor human babies, as PETAns and other anti-tests-on-animal people would tell you.

“when they ingest it…usually from fermented grain or other sources, they die,”

hummers don’t eat fermented grain

“maggots containing more concentrated amounts of the toxin are then get the picture.”

No I don’t get the picture, nor does the rest of the world, unless you mean getting the wrong picture or one made up based on nonsense. So, maggots get the bacteria in them, maggots which have super immune systems and whose feces kill all kinds of bacteria, AND? What then happens: the ecosytem collapses? The maggots evolve into walking singing dancing sex-having humanoids? It’s not obvious.

“Thus, I wouldn’t feed honey solutions to hummingbirds”

Thus you made a bunch of non-sequiturs or statements very similar to them.

“based on the above possibilities of contamination.”

What are you talking about man? You can’t boil honey water, only sugar water? Becauuuuse?

“Boiled sugar water is probably safer”

Probably because?

“and is what is pretty much universally recommended”

Pretty much = scientific statement? And who cares about concensus? What matters is what actually is true. Catholics are the majority, but does that mean their or their Popes’ claims, whom they say is God’s representative on Earth, that it’s okay to worship dead humans and pray to them and to angels is merely “venerating” and not worshiping things that aren’t gods or going against God’s word? Noooooo.

“on most of the sites I visited from the google search. Not sure what would happen if you boiled the honey solution first?”

Why not do a scientific experiment!


Signing it with BN really added to the discussion. Do you love attention or what? Your user name wasn’t sufficient as a signature?

jimmyjojo then said “This is so sad…”

What’s sad is logical fallacies, like your trollish appeal to emotion at the beginning of your reply, that is what is sad, not DISAGREEING with your feelings or opinions. Stop acting like God and a leading authority on anything, when you’re obviously a person with narcissism disorder from your rants on this thread.

Jimmy then said, ” Quote [“]If someone can show to me that feeding honey/water solution is harmful to the hummers, I will, naturally, have to re-assess what I have been doing these past 12 years… with no apparent ill effects.”

What ill effects would you like to be shown?”


Then jimmy the troll said, “Studies like this?

I just love people like this.”

Oh Jimmy really? You just love people like that? You just love making conniving prideful arrogant statements like that, that is what you love, you love to show off and get attention to make yourself appear to be better then others, and to make everyone else look inferior to you. No jimmy, you’re not superior because you talk with an arrogant know-it-all tone or words. That’s not what true intelligence is. You actually have to THINK CAREFULLY, no lazilly making cheap shots and parroting cliches without evidence to back them up.

“A pile of leading experts tell them something and that isn’t good enough.

Let’s look at that page shall we (love that shall we cliche jimmy? arrogant trolls like you looove cliches like that):

“Page Not Found

Oh dear, we couldn’t seem to find that”

Jimminysnappits! Page not found!

But something tells me one page doesn’t automatically = “a pile of leading experts” and that “a pile” is not a mountain, and that you, being a narcissist, are exagerrating and lying. A pile jimmy the science ignorant, is not the end and be all of knowledge or science. Just as scientists themselves say (and more intelligent parrots than you (especially when attacking Christians): “science is always correcting itself”, “science is always improving” and the fall back “we’re still learning”. But you being an arbitrary narcissist juts his head out in trollish fashion witha big troll face, saying, “Nooo noo nooo, this is sad, this is a troll, nanny nanny look at this study it’s proof of everything, ur a bad person, go away troll”. How about grow up jimmy and go away with your mental disorder and go live like a hermit so you stop annoying the sane people to death?

Then jimmy the troll said, “This link says “Honey ferments rapidly when diluted with water and can kill hummingbirds.

And that’s proof, cuz it says so on that page.

What you’re really saying Alicia is that your research since 1981 is better than the experts and scientists in the hummingbird field.”

Jimmy, you’re arrogant and a lazy researcher. You’re lying about who is an expert and committing the fallacies “appeal to authority” and “appeal to concensus” and you’re not even getting the concensus right. And you’re so unintelligent you don’t think about the fact that not all science fields agree, and that there is conflicting and inconclusive data conflicts in different fields of any industry. What do you say about this Mr. Jimmy Knows All:

“It’s a well known fact”

Read that again Mr. Jimmy Expert on Whose A Leading Expert and What Gets the Final Say:


“that honey is a poor source of nutrients, “Honey contains little amino nitrogen, with the lowest levels found in the lightest honeys”, the compleat Meadmaker (pg 54). Add to that honey’s acidic nature, and poor pH buffering capabilties and you have three factors that can adversely affect the yeast’s ability to effectively to its job… Honey contains very little nutrients for yeast growth. You will need to supplement with a well balance nutrient like Fermaid-K. ? Honey also contains very little (if any) buffering material. The pH will drop dramatically during the first few hours of fermentation, sometimes as low as 2.7-2.9. This will seriously stress the yeast, producing a very unhealthy yeast cell resulting in a long drawn-out fermentation. The problem can be minimized by adding a small amount of potassium carbonate at the beginning of the fermentation. Strive for the fermentation to be completed in two weeks.”

Does that sound like “quickly ferments” or does it sound like a person who is gullible and eager for praise but not willing to do the hard work to get it, and who has a problem with assuming things and not learning his lesson to NOT ASSUME, but who keeps doing so because of his mentally ill craving to bully others and get attention and praise he doesn’t deserve? It sounds like you are a myth repeating parrot, full of logical fallacies, including presumptions, because you have malignant narcissism disorder. The troll is you.

“How about this then, you show us your research proving honey is OK to use?”

Shown, Mr. Pretentious “How About This Then?”

Asking things witha smug tone and placing a question mark at the end, asking things with a questioning doubting “ah hah I got you” tone doesn’t make you right. You’ve got it backwards Jimmy, you celebrate (and immorally gloat) and take on the tone of someone who knows what he’s talking about before actually knowing what you’re talking about. You think doing a search on google and spending five minutes reading makes you a leading authority on what’s true. WRONG. You have EVIDENCE, not pot shots (true science is not pot shots and cheap shots and one time experiments, Jimmy the non expert in science, it’s repetition). You’re a shallow couch potato who thinks skimming for five or less minutes is enough to know the truth, and then you become biased once you’ve made up your mind, or made a fool of yourself by insulting others and bashing them over your beliefs.

“Never Feed Honey Solution to Hummingbirds […] what is this?”

It’s another page with mere claims, just like you. How about this: do actual research.

In Jimmy’s dumbed down world, Jimmy’s anti-science world, science isn’t do the experiments for yourself, it’s “Just believe whoever I say is right, don’t do any actual hard research, don’t you dare question, just believe whoever I say is right, whoever I say is a leading expert, whatever I say is an unclimbable pile, whatever I say is the concensus, don’t pay attention to anything else, ignore your nothing 12 years of feeding, that’s just nothign to talk about, just ignore it and just look at this 4 week study over hear done by guys in white lab coats who went to Harvard whose evolutionist friends granted them a BA in general bird studies and gave them extracredit and a $1000 grant to see if any hummeringbirds got sick a little when eating honey water.” You’re very gullible and illogical Jimmy, and a simpleton.

Jimmy, “You know if you Google “honey hummingbirds” there are 343,000 links most of which say pretty much the same thing,

No Jimmy with narcissism disorder, they don’t all pretty much the same thing. No chronically lazy minded Jimmy, you did not read 343,000 links and then go right to posting a reply to this person. The first three pages standardized pages on google and any other popular search engine, as every serious researcher knows, are the most relavant and 99.9% ONLY relavant pages. What comes after has a rapidly increasing irrelavance and is almost entirely ignored by serious reearchers due to knowing that fact after looking at them many times. You are an arrogant liar.

“and that is never put honey water in hummingbird feeders it’s been found to kill them.”

Appeal to repetition, another logical fallacy and a sign of someone with a NPD. Stop thinking that repeating and belittling makes you the winner in the Right One deparment. It makes you look, to people who know better, like a smug bully who uses arrogant belittlement to bully others into doing whatever he wants them to do.

“Now why would someone in their right mind argue with that? Unless?”

No, what you meant was, “Now why would someone argue WITH ME, JIMMY, THE ONE WHO IS ALWAYS RIGHT, PERFECT, unless they were crazy?”

You’re mentally ill jimmy, a living insult machine due to having been traumatized after too much flattery when you were little, and having been flattered too much by your parent or parents, you never built up the healthy mental ability to deal with criticism or bullying. Now you are a chronic bullier, forever trying to triumph over the humiliation you experienced as a child, by bullying everyone and anyone, for the smallest of things even.

buckmaster, “The tough thing is that it’s tough to tell what long-term effects anything is having on hummers.”

It’s not tough if they are tagged or you have them in captivity or disect them and see what happens after whatever. Not tough if you have the right equipment. This isn’t a study on weak electromagnetic waves on hbs from powerlines five miles away, it’s just diluted honey, buck.

“Unless they drop over at the feeder, you can’t always really tell if honey or red food coloring or whatever is having any effect on them. I know we all have our hummers we know by sight, but unless you’re banding the little guys, how can you be sure the bird that returns this year is the same “Junior” or “Betsy” from last year?”

Sure, tag it or photograph it and get it to get used to being around you upclose. Can you really be sure they all look like clones? Have you ever tried to tell them apart by regularly getting up close to them while they feed?

“Point is, why take the chance?”

For the sake of furthering knowledge and wisdom. Why not further science in this case? Are we talking about murdering a human, or anything that even comes close to being as being as valuable as a human?

“Plus, honey’s way more expensive (unless you keep hives, I guess)…”

And if your not someone who likes the thought of feeding birds refined sugar which is not natural and which is known to cause diabeted in humans from over use (not that birds are humans, but one of the people in this thread makes some comparisons of not quite and hardly related things).

“I’d break the bank if I used it instead of sugar water!”

Unless you didn’t regularly use the feeder and just wanted to see hummingbirds now and then.

christy2828 then said,

“Just want to point out that this user joined TODAY.”

That’s a logical fallacy (in the context you used it) in which you imply that this person is a troll for MERELY ASKING if feeding honey to hb’s was okay after all, and being that they said they’ve been doing it for 12 years (shouldn’t that make an impression on you christy? Or is 12 years nothing Miss LOOK AT ME TYPE “TODAY” IN CAPS! APPEAL TO MY EMPHASIS ON THAT WORD!”?

“For some strange reason, people like to get a rise out of people on GW forums.”

First you said it’s a person who joined today, then you said it’s PEOPLE ON GW forums. You’re very confused obviously, and I’d say a narcissist, being that you used the cliche “for some strange reason” and without any evidence, nor of it being strange. Trolls like you are everywhere, people with narcissism disorder, and being that they have a hankering for one upping everyone and trying to get everyone to think of them as awesome, it’s not strange at all that they’d poke their heads into wherever they’ve chosen to dwell and be a pest like you. Why are you insulting this person, and how did you contribute with your mere insults and pretentious babble? You made another fallacy: appeal to time. Since when are trolls only new to a forum or anywhere? So no one has been a long standing bully anywhere? There are no places that consist in large part of bullies or tyrants or stupid people? No governments, no leadership positions, no websites no homes? You’re truly simpleminded and stupid. It’s due to people like you that trolls do embed like ticks forever, you’re one of them.

“Take it with a grain of salt,”

Another unhelpful cliche typical of narcissists, to back up an your logical fallacies and insults. Why not say, “nanny nanny” to the person daring to question the status quo, daring to questiont the consensus, who dared, oh god know, to dare try and do their own experiment rather than having blind faith in Christy the Lover of Sophisticated Sounding Cliches More Than Hard Original Thinking?

“and let this thread fall down. Christy :)”

Christ: “Yeah, hah hah, hee hee, nanny nanny, smirk, lets oh do say we do indeed let this horrible thread this person started, how dare they! hah, let’s let it… smirk, fall down.” Christy squints her eyes at hummerwatcher Alicia and smiles while looking at her and whispering to her friend jimmyjojotheclownfromcanada just loud enough for Alicia to hear, “Hehe, Alicia is ugly, look at her clothes, she hasn’t been here long enough. Can you believe she actually feeds hummingbirds with honey water? What a stupid creep. She’s a troll haha. Troll. Look at her ugly hair. She wishes she was popular like us. Stupid freshman. Hey I know, lets go to her house at night and take her feeder and egg her house.” *Jimmy smiles back at Christy, yes lets teach that terribly arrogant troll a lesson she’ll never forget! She’ll never poke her noncomformist head back in GW ever again and we shall remain at the top! I bet she’s one of those stupid creationists anyways, they always have to try and get attention! Stupid Flying Spaghetti Monster worshipers!” Christy, “I bet she doesn’t believe in global warming! I bet she is one of those weirdos who doesn’t agree with NASA and the leading pile of experts who showed us the hockey stick and schemed in their emails to each other to supress data showing they were wrong and doesn’t believe in melting icebergs crashing everywhere or polar bears and penguins dying left and right and antarctica turning into habitable land for humans to enjoy and that plants actually breath carbon dioxide and thrive in it! SHE PROBABLY BELIEVES THE SUN WARMS THE PLANET LOL!”

sidk “mbuckmaster makes a good point. Unless you are scientifically studying the hummingbirds you don’t have any idea what the honey is doing to them.”

Yeah, a hummerwatcher who fed hummers honey water for 12 years is just a troll that stands a mile away looking through a telescope at hummers feeding on honey water and does trollish things in a hole like joining GW to have fun trying to annoy christyconnivingsmileyfacetroll, sidktroll and jimmyjojothenobodytrollfromcanada and everyone else on GW (all of whom except for newbies like Alicia the noncomformist happen to agree with whatever those three trolls say).

sidk, “I have an old book by an English guy named Mobbs who wrote about keeping hummingbirds in aviaries. It’s not a scientific book”

Then why mention it, and why insult Alicia for doing a 12 year feeding of hummers with honey water when johnnybobo and christy completely dismiss it as having any value? Do as you say not as you do right hypocrites?

“but he goes into a lot of detail on particular hummingbirds including how long they lived in captivity. It was usually just a few weeks or months, which made me really sad and angry to read. When he could tell what they died of it was usually a yeast infection (candida). He fed them honey because back then they thought it was more natural. Now that we know better”

“Now we know better” because of a non-scientific study and a dead link and two pages of mere claims no longer than a few sentences vs a 12 year at least casual observation Alicia? Question: are you a moron? And trolls like you would arbitrarily to make themselves look good, say, “Oh that’s an outdated study” if the book had disagreed. Further, you said, “usually”. So you made a casual connection and now that’s proof it’s honey that’s at fault, and honey can’t be improved, can’t be boiled. What simpletons, what petty neurotic babies. I can just imagine you all talking all speedy when making your comments acting all freaked out and with subdued anger, “Lets get rid of Alicia hurry so we can get back to our real lives. She’s upsetting our worldview, she’ll make fools of us if we don’t shut her up fast. Kill the thread don’t give her anymore attention. She’s like a creationist!”

“and make their artificial nectar from white sugar”

And don’t you know they need us and our artificial refined white sugar? Don’t you know humans have nothing better to do then feed hummers and that they would all die out if not for us. They would suffer horribly. I thought “natural evolution and humans living off raw veggies and gray water” is the God Saviour? Which leading expert on New Age Stuff should I follow?

“some zoos have been able to keep hummingbirds alive for years. Wat does that tell you?”

It tells me you made a mere claim they’ve been able to keep a vague unsaid amount of unsaid type of hummingbirds alive for years” and that you’re a confused and illogical idiot who doesn’t know how to make logical connections when trying to express himself.

“Here is a link that might be useful: Troll”

I’m betting you don’t understand that page sidk and think that merely because you posted it you must be an expert on Trolls and couldn’t possibly be one. Typical idiot-think and a typical troll tactic.

mbuckmaster, “Good info, sidk…and anecdotal evidence like that is really the best we have with hummingbirds. Sounds fairly conclusive to me as far as it goes. And a shrewdly included link! ;)”

Someone sounds sane, that’s dangerous. jimmyjojo, “Sidk, One thing many people in North America don’t know is that in Europe “humming birds” (two words) is a common word for a type of nectar eating sunbird. They are found through the middle east and into Africa, and are kept in Europe as caged birds much like people do to parrots over here.”

Wow the parrot comparison just really made everything more understandable. *rolls eyes*. And this is proof now that hummbers will die and the entire eco system will collapse, and that maggots something or other will uh, Mars is crashing into Venus and hummers love geodes ten four ten four over and out do you read me that Alicia is a creationist religious extremist and global warming denier and that Jews suffered nothing during Nazi march of dimes? I’m sure you get the picture.

jimmydodo, pardon, “jojo” I mean, “When you read on the internet or in books about “keeping” humming-birds it’s a totally different genus of bird.”

What are you talking about and what’s this have to do with honey fed hummers? You are a lemon salesman man.

“I hope that person is a Troll and not someone killing our hummingbirds”

Cuz trolls are people that would harm animals. And what a moron, based on one study, a page that isn’t even cached on google, a study that didn’t say anything about mass killings from what little you mentioned, nothing close, you’re exagerrating it up to “killing YOUR hummingbirds” “our” as in “whoever agrees with me jimmyjojo”? You’re malignant narcissist, which includes paranoia and extreme self-centeredness for whoever doesn’t know. What’s next jimmy, are you going to say Alicia is going to be responsible for another holocaust? You have “extremist” crazyiness in place of logic. I hope you don’t have kids or friends to drive insane.

“through sheer arrogance.”

Did you say that while loudly sipping your gourmet 10 year aged wine, little boy? Mr. Sheer Arrogance says you can kill his hummingbirds (which just cannot, oh, oh oh oh cannot belong to THOSE kinds of people like, ew, oh perish the thought, people like… eh, ew, ugh, gross, disgusting, EW PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS THAT DON’T MATCH MY PRESUMPTIONS… PEOPLE LIKE, EH EH EH, UHHHH, UH LEE, UH, AH, ALICIA. God I finally said it, that name. I must wash my royal princely mouth out. I shall never say that name again so long as I, jimmyjojoofkahnadah, lives.

sidk, “Mobbs”


sidk, continued, “may have also written about sunbirds or other nectar drinking birds but the book I have is specifically about hummingbirds. I haven’t run across any examples of that confusion in other books about aviculture but I guess there’s no shortage of ignorance about nature on either side of the Atlantic.”

I love that, “no shortage of ignorance”. Makes you sound like very wise person in his mid forties. You must be very smart. Your comment about Mobbs maybe having written about such and such really furthered the discussion on whether or not IT’S A MYTH THAT FEEDING HUMMINGBIRDS DILUTED HONEY WILL CAUSE HUMMINGBIRD MASS DIE OFFS, let alone kill a few in even a year vs refined sugar WHICH ALSO HASN’T BEEN OBSERVED IN ANY LONG TERM STUDIES AS IS OBVIOUS FROM THE IGNORANT BABBLE IN THIS THREAD MADE BY THE “NO NO NO, YOU’RE A TROLL” oafs here.

sidk, “I can’t imagine why anybody would call any other bird a “humming bird” since only hummingbirds have wings that hum.”

*Falls asleep. Wakes up.* I have an idea: lets not feed humming birds at all, even he abandoned ones, cuz that’s interferring with Mother Evolution and you’ll end up in Hell for that. And it’s not natural to feed refined sugar water let alone in plastic feeders with BPA in them most likely probsly prob, and the sugar water and feeding dishes can get dirty, and fill with bacteria and viruses very quickly since bacteria and viruses are all over in the airy stuff in the air (leading experts in Mainstream Science and Authoritarians Say So! PILES OF THEM! AND THERE’S 343,000,000,000,000,000,000 RESULTS ON GOOGLE THAT PRETTY MUCH SAY THE SAME THING!) and hummers are always sticking their tongues in dirty stuff, and uh, so, they might die from bacteria collecting in the non living dish which doesn’t naturally clean itself and which people have to clean, people who are dirty and covered in bacteria that hummers don’t often seem to come into contact with (BUT I’M NOT A MAIN STREAM SCIENTIST WHO BELIEVES IN A 13 BILLION YEAR OLD BIG MAGIC LIFE ORDERING MAKING BOMB I NEVER SAW NOR ABIOGENESIS, NOR MACRO EVOLUTION, SO SHOULD YOU EVEN READ WHAT I’M SAYING? CUZ THAT MAKES ME A KOOK! KOO KOO KOO KOO, I DON’T AGREE WITH THE MAINSTREAMERS! I’M SO STUPID, SUCH A SINNER) blah blah the point is, don’t feedum, cuz it’s not natural. And give up your dogs and cats. Only take care of your own kids, don’t even look at kids that aren’t your own, don’t touch them, don’t take pics of them, and just do what is natural for the non-arrognt humans to do: eat raw veggies and build homes out of dirt, just dig a hole in the ground and live like a fox. Now that’s true humility and caring for the environment. Woah, wait, that might harm worms and displace the mother earth gaya dirt, and might harm bacteria… oh what to do… I know! Lets kill ourselves! No wait, then maggots mite eat our bacteria infested bodies, and that’s not natural. Maybe I’ll just stand still for as long as I can and wish myself out of existance.

One more thing sicky, chistyconniving and jimmyjester: why would a troll post in their first statement a warning about feeding hummingbirds with honey, if they were trying to upset you by convinving everyone to do so, and denying for a malicious reason that it was a problem, and never denying once in their statement that it might be? Why even bring it to your attention with concern they might be doing harm if they WERE trying to upset you more than hummingbirds, and harm hummingbirds? Further, why are you acting like Alicia is denying there are such warnings or are none, when her very first sentence she points one out? Stupid, crazy, libeling, insano, idiot, hypocrite, careless, parrots blind to the utter obvious much? Trolls? You can’t see the first sentence? Progress haters? Fearmongers?


Nectar is rich in vitamins and minerals and is a good substitute for the white-refined sugar. Nectars are produced by plants. They are a good substitute for sugar and rich in essential vitamins and minerals. Since the nectar is derived from nature the diabetic people can easily substitute nectar with sugar as it will never increase the blood sugar due to the presence of glycemic index. The nectar is converted by the bees while they make honey. Nectars have very recently entered the family of edible food stuffs. Unlike the honey the nectars are produced by the flowers. They are preferred by the vegetarians as there is no animal involved in the creation process.


Honey is a well known healthy food and is known for its healing and nutritional qualities. It is a good source of energy and is beneficial for our health. People who have diabetes can consume them without any fear of their blood sugar getting increased. Unlike nectar honey is created by bees who utilize the nectars harvested by them from flowers. They have been a favorite among people for many years. They are however sometimes despised by the vegetarians as there are animal involved.” – vspages

The earliest mention I could find of honey water getting fungus in it, and it was also the earliest seemingly scientific one, was from a “Wildlife review, Dept. of Recreation and Travel Industry,” 1969, Volumes 5-6, of the British Columbia. Dept. of Recreation and Travel Industry, British Columbia. Fish and Wildlife Branch, and an apparent vague reference to it in a letter from a reader to Popular Mechanics in 1970 to it, which apparently then became used as a warning by others into a DO NOT DO THIS warning. So that’s it for the most part, a reference to some super obscure hummingbird study in or before 1969, which canadian jimmyjojo (and christy and sidk by agreeing with him) turned into, “basically 300,000 links that all agree with each other”. That one statement got repeated over and over in various hummingbird books and websites and by other gullible, presumpteous, lazy-minded lookwhaticandoers.

And if that’s not enough evidence for you that this whole honey is murder thing is nearly a mass hallucination, it’s a fact that sugar water can also ferment under heat and sunlight and that depending on the temperature, the feeder would need to be cleaned daily (this is Farenheit, starting ith 71-75):

71-75 = 6 days
76-80 = 5 days
81-84 = 4 days
85-88 = 3 days
89-92 = 32 days
93+ = change daily

Now who, knowing this, is going to say, “but you can’t boil the honey, it’s impervious to boiling, only refined sugar in water can be boiled”?

If you do become of a hummingbird that has been infected by a fungus, either take it to a vet if you can catch it, or consult this book here and try it on your own if you want to.

Categories: trolls, trolls Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

A New Super Trojan From Hell?

April 28, 2012 1 comment

About a month or two ago, I got infected with what I’ll just say is the Happili trojan. What it does is redirect Google’s links to various junk advertising sites, ones that don’t even seem of any use, and often to the Happili search engine, which is an ugly garbage nothing site basically. It’s apparently a rootkit, and in my case it’s hijacked Firefo,. On top of that, that sick company Babylon (the translator one) refuses to give me the honest answer as to how to remove their trojan url field browser hijacjer (Which takes over the url search function via the url field/address bar in Firefox), which works out in an ironic way because it overrides the Happili trojan (lol, battle of the trojan browser hijackers). After trying hard to remove it, I managed to get rid it from IE/Internet Explorer, or rather Microsoft’s Security Essentials, a virtual trojan itself, as it gives you no convenient way to get rid of it knew how to defeat it, but, Microsoft being the scum they are, deliberately lets Firefox, remain infected, or rather as I call it, jacked. What got me to start writing this article is when putting in an SD card to look at pictures on it, for the first time ever got this error message “class not registered”. So much for leaving safemode! If I didn’t mention safemode yet, I will later, so you’ll understand why I said that.

I’ve used Hijack This, Malwarebytes, MSE (which I just mentioned), AVG, Norman Malware Remover, Unhackme, Combofi,, ARIES Rootkit Remover, RootkitRevealer, tried RootRepeal but it won’t work on a 64 bit Windows OS, and tried Anvi Smart Defender. While typing Anvi Smart Defender (which I actually typed in an earlier order but rearranged things in the order I tried them) it started scanning when I clicked it to figure out what it’s name was for this article, found some bad stuff, which then triggered AVG (even though I turned it off dammit) which found two bad things, and not sure if any were what Anvi found, but this stuff will not go away. It keeps coming back. It’s back again as I am writing this. AVG identifies two things it calls a virus. It calls them both JS/Downloader.Small. One is located in the Windows temp folder, the other is in the Appdata\Local\Temp folder.

There is some way I found when I found the Anvi stuff on a website that has an e,planation as to how to remove the Happili trojan. It tells you to go into safe mode, and remove certain registry entries and to scan with Anvi while in safe mode, but I hate trying to memorize registry entries, and being overwhelmed forgot I could just open the saved page with the instructions. Overwhelmed because of various things going on in my life and having a massive number of tabs open in both IE and Firefo, often.

But so today, other bizarre things started happening: IE would flicker when using Twitter (yes I see the irony: Flickr/Twitter), and wouldn’t stop or function normally. And when I got to watching a certain YouTube video, the video would suddenly blank and show an e,clamation mark. Then I spent, sitting down in agony over it, thirty minutes or more when my computer nearly came to a crawl speed. I tried not to force a retart (since when I last did it, a few days ago, it caused me major boot up problems), and instead resorted to shutting down things I thought my be causing the probs using Task Manager, and of course started with IE, trying to shut down the bad tab/page and let IE recover it. It didn’t work. So then I tried closing folders, and e,plorer, but that wouldn’t help either. I gave up since I had already entirely forced Firefo, and IE to close even, and it was still approaching a nearly frozen state. When I rebooted, it froze after loading the desktop and me just opening a few basic programs that half the planet uses (email client, etc.), so forced a shut down again. Then went into safemode when it froze again, that helped, but I didn’t want to stay in it since I couldn’t open up pics and the screen aspect ratio is ugly as you know if you’ve ever used it for long. Then, when everything seemed somewhat normal (it was still being slow, though not as bad) I tried using my Microsoft Lifecam to take some rare pics and vids of myself, but, the video function wouldn’t work. When it told me to look in the help file, a black bo, appeared in the middle of the Lifecam window, and it just stayed that way unless I forced it to shut down. I tried over and over to get the video recording to work, but failed.

THEN I went to uninstall the Lifecam software, thinking maybe it got damaged, but it froze, so I rebooted, went outside to talk to a little beautiful dark brunette, shopping wit my dad, had a hellish argument, as usual, with me mostly me arguing this time, ugh, then went back, dug in my cave some more after seeing a beautiful blonde girl with a nice outgoing dog, though she wasn’t so outgoing, then came back to my place, washed, then got to writing this article. THEN, when I tried Revouninstaller again to remove MS Lifecam, and what happened? It said the uninstaller wouldn’t work and then went to scanning for left over files. WOW. So, what, am I going to discover the uninstallers won’t work either? Something else I noticed before going shopping, is that when I repeatedly right clicked on My Computer, the usual resulting dialog bo,, or whatever wouldn’t come up. I did this to try to get to the device manager to see if the Lifecam drivers were working right. Let’s see if I can get into it this time… no, it doesn’t do anything when I select properties. Wow. Something has got a grip on my computer. And, I did uninstall Malwarebytes to try and stop any conflict with AVG and MSE. I also didn’t mention, though should have earlier, that these new problems that have been happening to day, the freeze ups, happened when that video error started happening on YouTube. I got a message from Adobe to update flash, and thinking that might be what was causing things to go haywire, installed their update and McAfee snuck itself in and installed. When it was seemingly done scanning and Adobe installing, that’s when the freeziness began. The taskbar was basically frozen, the McAfee window was showing in the task bar as a tab despite me seemingly having already closed it and the taskbar kept going white and the desktop reloading. So installing Adobe resolved nothing.

Then I thought that maybe it was the Adobe updater that caused things to start going super slow afterwards. I thought his because many times it was the thing responsible for things suddenly slowing down to a near freeze without e,planation. If you don’t know about this (and you’d have to be someone who completely avoids flash in your browser to not know) or be some alien visiting Earth, but in case you’re new, or this is being read by someone in the far future, I’ll e,plain: The stupid stupid Adobe company has an updater which refuses, at least up until now, to turn off when you tell it to, and it will cause things to get super slow and when you crash e,plorer to get things going again, it’s malicious updater will pop up asking you to update, but that didn’t happen this time.

Wow, I can’t even publish this article because my Internet has gone dead. It won’t work! I remembered that while my dad was parked outside my place, and I was bringing back groceries, or some time around that time today, he asked if my phone was working, because he said he couldn’t get through to me, and I ended up saying “that’s strange.” I’ve gotten some calls over the weeks from people apparently dialing the wrong number, and also looking for some guy or guys that used to live where I did, to pay debts apparently, so I rarely pick up my phone and let the answering machine say whatever. But he said it didn’t work, so I said, “that’s strange” and wondered if maybe the A.M. just filled up with it’s ma, amount of messages, which would be pathetic since it’s only up to ten. But it is a really cheap phone, so that wouldn’t be a surprise to me if that were the case, however, I see my Internet isn’t working, and it’s tied into my phone. I’ve tried repeatedly to reset my modem, but it’s not working. I wonder if this is some sort of new trojan that has disrupted my Internet connectivity.

Wow, noticed something else wacky: I couldn’t see the files on my SD card when I went to save the contents of this article onto it to publishing using my laptop via wifi. I can now now that I am looking at it directly rather than through the save dialog box. Something else I didn’t mention was that when I got infected with Happili, my ability to see thumbnails right away, or the extra large size, wouldn’t work, so that I’d only see blank images at first till I toggled the thumbnail size setting, but sometimes it still won’t let me images in the extra large size. Very strange.

Wait, what the… I just looked at utorrent and it’s still downloading stuff, and now that I think about it, wordpress was able to pop up a preview page. So why in the world does the system tray show a disconntected Internet sign?! AAAH! Hmm, I just saved this as a draft to WordPress, so, I am connected. This is very strange. Maybe this trojan or whatever is infecting me has some prank features.

If anyone knows what is going on, please help, this is terrible. If no one want’s to figure this out, or can in a short time after I publish this, I may reinstall Windows to get out of this mess. I wonder if I have the space to transfer all my stuff to another hard drive first.

Update: Right after publishing this, tried to get around the inability to preview the pics on my card by copying one to my desktop to see if I could then view it from there, but I’m still getting the same error message.

Update: I just tried to change the default image viewing program, which is Windows Photo Viewer, and when I clicked “change” in the properties box, it froze, but I was able to force it to close without crashing explorer. What is going on?

Update: When I waited for “open with” to pop up my programs of choice to view my pics with, it took many seconds to open, and I just tried using Snagit Editor to view my pics, it worked, but you have to drag things into it, and when I closed all the pics I’d dragged into it, I got a “stopped working” message and it closed. That reminded me that for the entire day, or past two days, another one of my oft used programs kept suddenly popping up a stopped working message and closing. Something has really corrupted my software, I hope it’s only messed up the installed software, and isn’t creeping into all my exe’s!

Update: I just tried to force Lifecam to uninstall to see if I could repair it with a new installation, but got the message, “the windows installer service could not be accessed”.

Update: I just got done with MSE scanning a “total” of 82,370 files on “Quick Scan”, and it found nothing. Anvir also earlier did a quick scan of some sort it seemed, and found nothing either. But the broken programmes problems remain.

Update: I just tried to install an image viewing program so that it would automatically take over file viewing since I can’t change what views images manually, but I got the “windows installer service could not be accessed”. So then, I can’t install anything either.

Update: My audio/sound has been disabled and only the speakers and system sounds show in the mixer, not the browser, video player or winamp.

Update: I remember that last week, I was having trouble keeping certain programs open for longer than three seconds, like Notetab and one or two others programs. I told Notetab about this, but they said they were unaware of any problems. It did work on my laptop which uses the same OS, so whatever this trojan is seems to have already been doing damage since last week, and maybe it was even longer ago than that.

Update (next day): It’s disabled my java, and now videos on YouTube won’t play. Time to reinstall Windows.

Update: The videos playing on YouTube seems to have only been a temporary problem which was triggered by skipping forward repeatedly.

Found dirty crystal minerals of some sort, what are they?

I’ve been mining out in the desert, and have been digging up bizarre ugly crystals that resemble very short chunks or wide slabs (slabs smaller than my hand that is) of tourmaline. Some of this crystal stuff  are small glass like sheets that you can see through. However, some of it looks like warped dirty ice, others look like garbage asbestos. I came upon some veins of the stuff, and it easily crumbles into little short fibers. A small amount of rocks had some of these crystals embedded in them, and those rocks are light beige and smooth and feel soft, but when washed with water, do not melt away. A few pieces are like very thin burnt pieces of dry thick crepe (not at all round in shape though), only without a burnt look, but rather a look of mud. And they are covered in tiny protruding very stubby crooked finger-like structures (nothing beautiful). I also noticed that these crystals are poorer the deeper I go into the soil. I eventually got to thick clay, and pockets of this crystal stuff were in it, and as I said, they were poor from then on. What is this dirty ice stuff, and is there any value to it other than as specimens of mineral, and is anything more valuable usually found with this stuff? I’m hoping if I go deep enough I’ll come upon gem material, rather than this apparent pretty junk. This stuff is around an area where a volcano apparently exploded, because there are lava rocks everywhere, ugly ones that sometimes fall apart. Here’s one pic (click it to see more of what I found on Flickr).

Strange Ice Explosion/Formations Appear Russian Ural Area

This is a translation of a news report on what is either an ice fall or some strange carving or cutting and lifting of ice:

An Anomaly of Unknown Origin Noticed In the Urals

The fall of a meteorite or a natural phenomenon of unknown origin has changed dramatically quiet rural way of life of the inhabitants of the village Rubezhka. In the morning, January 12, a local forester Paul Singilevtsev found a mile from the village uprooted from the middle of the Urals huge chunks of ice and giant sagebrush.

“How this is bothering me!”

Nikolai Sitnikov of the Akim District of the County Rubezhinskogo was obviously tired of answering questions from visitors from various regional agencies. He met us, if not with outright hostility, then at least with a solid share of irritation.

“Everybody has been here – he says – rescuers, committee for national security, police. we are fed up with journalists! I will show you how to get into the place so you can do it own your own. I will make up a way for you to get there.” The journalists barely have time to talk back. “I’m tired! I will escort you to the place, I will no go there myself. Now I will draw up a plan on how to get there.”

However, despite the mock sternness …(he) clearly wanted to talk about the incident. …he drew up an impromptu map, taking a lot longer than necessary, while also talking about the details of anomalous phenomena.

We have a forester Paul Singilevtsev – said Akim. — In the morning, the 12th, he went around a lot. On the way back, as he says, he decided to cut off the path and walk across the ice of the Urals. He says that the unusual lump of ice immediately attracted his attention, went and looked, realized that something strange happened, and went straight towards me. And I was brought here along with DESM professionals and all those supposed to have a reason to investigate such cases. The most striking thing is that no one had seen or heard anthying (related to this strange occurrence). One night the ice was quiet, yet later was broken – but no cod to be seen, no explosions, no impact.

According to Nikolai Sitnikov, for the moment he is most interested in the cause of the strange inversion of the ice. He says there is nothing dangerous for the inhabitants of the village (to fear).

“Cheesniki” arrived, and they analyzed samples of soil, water, ice, even measured the radiation levels using a dosimeter, but no change was found. They said that all of the parameters were normal. … To me the main thing that people do threatening. They are then told that the spring is to hold the bottom of a large study of the Urals and just be told what had happened.

By the end of our conversation Nikolay Sitnikov also told how the incident affected Rubezhintsah. According to him, the villagers were “inflated” from a science fiction novel anomaly.

Allegedly, someone has already seen in his yard “green men” as one of the villagers got up at night to relieve himself he saw them flying… [can’t translate]. However, on January 16 he saw a… [can’t translate].

It should be noted that the chart Nicholas Sitnikov made was not very good. Anyways, in his homemade plan, we went quite far from the village. Having strayed a couple of hours in the woods, thoroughly, we froze a few times while firmly stuck in the snow, we finally managed to get to the shore of the Urals.

Here, we had four people in the form of foresters. They immediately understood what we [“were looking for”?], and pointed in the right direction to a strange hole in the ice. [“We questioned”?] Paul Singilevtseva, who discovered the anomaly, who was among the foresters, and… [can’t translate].

After a half or two kilometers of hiking paths on the ice of the river, we found the desired spot.

To say that the fault of the ice cover of the Urals here looks like a strange anomaly is an understatement.

Right in the middle of the river is clean strip not covered with snow and ice. The length of the strip – 100 meters, width – 6 to 10. Around the middle of all this there is accumulation of ice hummocks. Moreover, solid blocks, weighing 200-300 pounds… [can’t translate]. In order to have dispersed these blocks of ice, as in ice thrown from a possible “ground zero” of 10-20 meters, it would have been necessary to use powerful explosives or using a heavy blow of high speed.

On some blocks of ice are visible traces of river sand, as if after a break on them dramatically splashed with water mist lifted from the bottom, and then abruptly left without even having [can’t translate] sand. There was ice of different colors – from transparent to almost black. This fact could be blamed on a different index of refractions of light, though the photographer, [can’t translate] Raul Uporov specially photographed them at the same angle, to minimize this error [in the photos]. The edges of the ice [can’t translate] we thought had been melted.

Cracks are visible on the ice for a few dozen meters from “ground zero” and the ice cracked by strict geometric rules – at right angles and equal rectangles. By the way, uprooted ice, with rare exception, has the shape of equilateral triangles. In short, out editors have never seen anything like this before.

Now we have to wait for the official conclusions of the study, which, as promised, Nikolai Sitnikov, will begin after the ice flow. In the meantime, we can only speculate.

That is my improved translation of Google’s automated translation of this article.

More information: (there’s an English and French translation in the “video info, they are probably bad translations)

My Prediction of the World’s Destiny In the Next 20 Years

I don’t believe America is going to be a capitalist country after 20 years. I also don’t believe America will be unified anymore, as in all the states still United under the federal government. Despite these break ups, I believe that the federal government will survive in some form and will simply claim that it has rightful control over this broken up America and can command the states to do because, they simply have more power and using the excuse that it’s best to have a central government as the founding fathers claimed, ignoring that they also said that that citizens should throw off a tyrannical government over them.

I believe that the American federal government will start a third world war, or rather provoke one, and that there will be a large exodus of Christians from America to Canada, Mexico and Israel, because of an obvious and huge rise in crime over the next years. And also because of their fear of being drafted regardless of their age into an evil army controlled by a tyrannical government.

I think education will be on par with a substandard version of what China has achieved now, or rather as good as what Russia has now, and that the major breakthroughs if any, will be made in the those with government/military contracts, who have the money for R&D, and that most of these achievements will never be shared with the world. The ones I do believe will become common will mainly be in brain to machine interface technology, androids/smart-robots, self-repairing metal and graphene skins of vehicles, planes and armor, organ growing (including the ability to heal burn victims completely, nerve repair (including the kind that will heal paralysis), extreme human memory enhancement, graphene armor, optical computers, crystal memory storage, holographic projection, and miniature thorium power plants. I don’t believe the government will allow America or any other country to get farther than that and I believe it will use a third world war to severely reduce the world’s population, so that there will be no chance of ever loosening their control from an afterwards global American government.

I also believe that there will still be a world-wide drug war, merely out of greed and as a tool used by governments against citizens they don’t like, and that people being framed for drug possession or owning some banned plant will become common. I believe that governments will make it legal for them to seize an entire estate and all the property a person has merely because they found some illegal drugs or plants on them, and that even if it isn’t legal, they will “lose” the property or sell it off quickly so that if the robbed person manages to get the courage and help to go back to court to sue for damages, that the judge will simply say, “We’re bankrupt and no longer own your property so we have nothing to give you.”

I believe that China will no longer be able to sell us goods cheaply, due to having broken apart into smaller countries which will go into competition with one another, and as a result, the prices of goods throughout the world will become much higher. As a result of that, those who were used to having a comfortable life will resort to theft and murder to get what they want, and many businesses will go out of business as a result. The wealthy communities and businesses will boost their security and have to bribe the police for better protection as a result of crimes becoming much more frequent and bolder. Eventually, America’s great cities will look like ghettos.

Their police and military forces, will become much more corrupt as a result of taking bribes and become more corrupt than street gangs. Loyalty even between the government, military and police will be hard to have without bribes.

I believe this will happen due to the psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists gaining much more control throughout the leadership positions in the world, and as that happens, crime will increase in proportion and will become so high, that having an unhelpful and backstabbing neighbor will be common.

Eventually I believe that the corruption will become so bad, that some country is going to sneak a submarine of the coast of America and detonate a nuclear missile at just the right height to ruin most of the electronics, at which point, over the weeks, there will be millions of deaths, mass rioting and the north fleeing to Canada, and the South fleeing to Mexico. During this time I believe millions will die, and that the dead bodies will cause a huge increase in flies, and that these flies will spread plagues all over. I believe that many will resort to cannibalism and end up eating diseased humans which will result in more plagues.

I also believe there will be a few devastating earthquakes From California to Nevada and in the New Madrid area. The New Madrid earthquakes will cause gas explosions along the gas pipelines there which will kill millions of people.

I believe that working cars, trucks and planes will be rare and bullet proof vests, guns and ammo also, due to the world’s devastated economy, major food supply reduction (due to America being devastated), a huge drop in buyers of these things and from crime and wars hindering the transport of oil and gas. I imagine the world will become filled with feudalistic Thunderdome cities with small armies which will only cooperate in times of desperation or if they are convinced they can gain a good amount of worthy plunder and slaves.

These are not prophecies, just my educated guesses about what will happen.

Update 4-4-2012/5:40 AM, just found this:

The Coming Collapse of China: 2012 Edition

Dr. Hugh Ross’ ”UFOs and Little Green Men = Demons” Claim Refuted

April 2, 2012 4 comments

A picture of a cigar/blimp shaped UFO in 1870. It’s the oldest known photo of a ufo.

What may be the first or second picture of a saucer shaped ufo, made in 1932. Did any human government on the surface of Earth have saucer shaped airships? How many people knew about saucer shaped airships?

The famous Battle of Los Angeles saucer-shaped ufo. I ask again: how many humans on Earth had heard of any aircraft that was saucer shaped or circular?

Dr. Hugh Ross, a long earth type creationist made the following mistakes, logical fallacies on Coast to Coast AM yesterday by claiming that UFOs and aliens must be demons for the following reasons:

1) stars were very far away, and because of what we know about physics, there is no way anything from there could get to us

2) Aliens lie and each time we learn “it’s not possible” for life in exist on other planets nearby “they change their story”

3) Aliens only do damage

4) UFOs only matched our current technological developments. He said, (fireballs in ancient times, dirigibles in modern (he meant the 1800’s I guess), and didn’t say this, but saucers from 1940s-1970s and triangles later.

5) No one has recovered alien crash debris

This is why he is wrong:

1) Concerning reason one: It’s not a surprise to me that Ross is an evolutionist or leans in that direction and also parrots skeptic propaganda and statements indicative of extreme delusion, confusion, bitterness and/or mental illness, that is, denial of the obvious and plain contradictions that evolutionists and other God-deniers make, like, “Design is not a reason to believe in God, I don’t see any amazing design” and yet when talking about design and trying to get people to believe in a Godless version of science, say, “These designs I see are amazing and it’s amazing what nature can do.” It’s arrogant and in ignorance of science and the facts to claim that our understanding of physics is so good that we know nothing light years away could have reached us. It’s also a contradiction: things light years away HAVE reached us, even when using “old earth” chronology, examples: asteroids, space dust and even planet-sized objects. And why couldn’t beings living on some sort of planet that outputs enough heat and light of its own have made it’s way near Earth close enough for beings to get here from it? Why couldn’t there be beings living on the inside of Earth, or other planets in the solar system, or even some unseen planets in the nearest stars around us? Why wouldn’t there be natural wormholes all over the universe for beings to get through and many of them taking them near Earth? Does he not know that it’s been “discovered” by some mainstream scientists that nearly every stay has a planet, and that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe? Why would, in his old earth billions of years old(?) version of the universe wouldn’t many aliens become so advanced as to be able to make huge ships filled with other smaller ships that have been traveling for billions of years, and that many come across Earth during their explorations? Why is that impossible, and that some could have set up bases or homes inside or outside the planets of our solar system, or the nearby planets outside of it and from there discovered Earth?

2) Yet another obvious lie made in apparent bitter laziness. Anyone can read about alien encounters and read witness testimony of aliens not saying a thing, or a few words, or just one word, and not saying anything that can be determined to be a lie.

3) Yet another obvious lie. So whenever genuine imaginary flying saucer or whatever shape appears, it’s doing damage, or even mental damage by confusing people? By that logic, anything that can’t be identified right away is doing some sort of spiritual damage, which is obviously wrong and a stupid thing to say. One Christian told me that angels will always praise God when you see them. Says who?! So if we see an angel on it’s way to do whatever, it has to say, “Praise God” for anyone who sees it? That is stupid. By that logic, human Christians too should say, “Praise God” whenever they are seen in public, or else as this Christian implied, they are really demons or showing hatred for God, and therefore must not be true Christians.

4) If his claim that aliens are just copying whatever technology humans have made at the time, then demons are not super intelligent, or rather none of them are, and instead they are very stupid. Further, what is the deception point when imitating a known technology? How would imitating a hot air balloon get someone to think, “Aliens, lets abandon God and worship aliens and conclude that hot air balloon must have come from outside Earth, from the stars.” What other word for such a claim as Ross’s is there than “stupid”? Isn’t this copy-cat reasoning the reasoning of an insane person, a liar, someone highly confused or someone very lazy in thought? Since when did anyone have regular airflight ability before the 1800’s? Were people regularly travelling around in balloons? Even if they were, why would seeing a glowing balloon get someone to think, “Aliens from some star.”? And when did an alien ever step out of a hot air balloon to say, “Jesus isn’t real, worship something other than Jesus.” or something heretical like that? And what in the world would demons be imitating if making “fireballs” as Hugh mentioned was seen? So humans were travelling in fireballs and demons copied that? Here is a chronology of the best documented flying devices or flying-enabling devices humans have made  and here is physical evidence left behind that humans were able to make aircraft in ancient times:, Two Youtube videos also show that both of those planes shown in the second link can fly very well. Some of you might be wondering if the alleged aircraft of the “Abydos Heiroglyphs” are evidence of ancient flight; apparently not: So, if Ross’s claim that demon’s are just imitating what humans know at the time, then they should have been imitating people flying on wings, helicopters, balloons, spears, knives, flying carpets, and really, anything, even bricks. He seemed at one point during Coast to Coast AM to refer to the airship sightings of the 1800’s, however, as the monash chronology shows, there were toy helicopters all over the USA long before airships/dirigibles and balloons were widespread. So then, shouldn’t demons have been imitating helis, flying around in glowing helis traveling super fast? Powered ornithopters had also been invented long before the 1800’s:,, but were any demons imitating flying planes? Were any demons ever imitating planes as much as they were saucers at any point in history!? And why in the world would they be imitating saucers for decades in modern times, let alone all throughout history, if planes were the most common form of travel and when hardly anyone knew about flying discs/saucers? How many people knew about the avrocar project? Not many, because it was highly classified! So Ross’ explanation is just ignorant, lazy hatchet job nonsense.

Even many skeptics know already that UFOs are rarely the same (unlike Ross’s wrong claim that they are all neatly one type depending on the time in history/what technologies were known) and use that fact as evidence that they aren’t even real, because they reason, that if aliens were here, we’d be seeing “stock” UFOs, as in UFOs off some production line. But that is a logical fallacy, and “begs the question”: “Why would UFOs come off a production line and why would they all have to look the same even if they did?” Are all cars the same? Are they all the same color after being put out for use? Are all boats and airplanes the same? Does our military only use a few types of vehicles? Why would aliens be the opposite? Or why would they not be so advanced that they could reconfigure the design of their ships for fun, to make room for new things or decrease room and on and on I could imagine reasons. It’s also a fact that witnesses often report UFOs changing shape, splitting apart, merging, passing through solid objects or becoming transparent or invisible. So to say, “they never look the same” ignores the fact that many aliens who get here could be so advanced that they can easily change the shape and internal design of their ships. There is no reason that after even thousands of years that no alien race anywhere could have developed nanotechnology, microscopic robots that could allow ships to reconfigure in seconds. But he didn’t make that they are always different an issue, rather he made it an issue that they were different during various time, which is also false. Anyone who does a thorough study sees that ancient glyphs show saucers or other shapes, that ancient paintings show saucers and in one or two cases, rocket-like ships,(1 note that link has ads to the right where scantily clad women are sometimes shown)(2 this and the 3rd link don’t have such ads but is nearly the same as the first link)(3) and a French coin from the mid 1600’s with a UFO on it, and on back, more UFOs or rather the UFO flying in various places. And in modern times, 1800s and later, the same shapes have been reported.

Go to for more info about this coin.

He is also wrong about “matching our current” level or understanding of technology, because no ancient civilization, at least not for long was known to UFO/anti-gravity, ion or rocket ship tech. He claims that in the far past people saw fireballs, apparently in reference to a single painting, of BLACK orbs and some triangular objects, with some of the orbs smoking, but notice how he takes the picture out of context and only focuses on one part of it? Further the picture doesn’t show any plain fireballs, so that’s a lie. Further, the same shapes seen in the past are seen today. Even Ecclesiastes, probably by Solomon, says, “What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun. Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? It has been already in the ages before us.”

5) Concerning claim five, that is just stupid and a flat out plain denial of the truth. What grown person with the Internet hasn’t heart of Roswell, or other crash incidents? Yet this person wants us to believe his long-age creationism is worth listening to when he flat out lies like this? Does that show he has an honest or dishonest mind? It’s horrible to know that those who think that all Christians are liars will use Hugh as a “perfect example of a Christian”.

As for the claim that UFOs and aliens all being demonic: Hugh forgets that Satan is “the god of this world” not “the universe”. If Satan were busy causing trouble all over the universe it would mean that an insane amount of demons were causing havoc in the universe and he is managing it all. Does the Bible indicate anything like that is going on? Rather it teaches his focus is here on Earth, not the entire universe. It would mean that Satan has control over countless demons and I’m sure then, that then there would be even more countless angels so to speak defending these other planets against the full damage demons could do if they were allowed to do whatever they wanted. Though possible, it doesn’t fit what the Bible implies and would truly make Satan a god, someone able to manage the entire universe. I really doubt Satan is that organized being that he’s a mentally ill (narcissist) bitterness-plagued person. God says he goes about like a roaring lion not “a very angry ultra-multi-tasking manager with his attention repeatedly refocusing on countless planets throughout the universe.”

I wondered myself about a certain verse at times in the past, if it was an indication that UFOs were demons, that being that Satan is “the prince of the power of the air.” Should that be taken literally or figuratively? The Bible doesn’t indicate any symbolism there, and there’s no reason not to take it literally. However I found at least a couple of Christians were using that verse as evidence, or at least an indication that UFOs were demonic. However the verse would have to be taken as not being literal then, or interpreted to mean that Satan can manipulate air (like God was able to manipulate water and transform it into other forms of matter) and transform it into solid objects or cause energetic effects with it so that he can make ball lightning or lightning and other things that appear to be advanced starships in some sort of so called high “vibrational” state so that they become massless and weightless. But the Bible doesn’t indicate that, it simply says “air”. There’s only two verses I know of that are related to that one, and they are:

“he (God) makes his messengers [as] winds” (Psalms 104:4) and Job 1:19  in which Satan murdered all of Job’s children with “a great wind” that “came across the wilderness”. There is no logical reason to make the leap that Satan can transform air into matter, or would need air to do so, and couldn’t just use earth, as Revelation says he will one day to create a beast made in the image of the man he will possess called the “anti-Christ” by Paul. I don’t see why it’s a stretch that if Satan could cause a tornado or hurricane, that he could also cause storms if allowed too. But remember he is called “prince” of the air, not “king”. God has ultimate control over Earth, not Satan, so it may be, that Satan can’t make anything stronger than some violent gusts of winds, or perhaps nothing more powerful than the most powerful known tornados. Maybe God will allow him greater freedom during the “tribulation” so that he can do even more damage during that time of pre-judgment on the world of this age.

I believe that maybe very early after the flood some of Noah’s sons or daughters passed on knowledge to their children as to how to build some of the greater technology that mankind had once achieved, but wherever that information or technology is now, is lost, derelicts in space, buried or at the bottom of the ocean or was destroyed. I think maybe sometimes, just as demons pretend to be humans, they sometimes pretend to be aliens, or UFOs, or rather project such images. But there is no true way of knowing unless you had access to the same technology, could see what was going on “behind the scenes”. If some UFO is acting odd in the sky and aliens falling out of it and disappearing before they hit the ground, could be a joke played by an alien projecting a video.

I’d bet a bottle of grape must that Hugh Ross is an Arminian, which are a numerous group of false Christians, who are blinded by Satan themselves, and given to parroting stupid, contradictory and slanderous reasons to justify their belief that God wouldn’t destine a person to Hell.

You can also read these various explanations here as to why Hugh’s long-refuted claim that the word “day” in Hebrew (yom) in Genesis can mean “a very long time” is wrong. Here’s another page refuting more old earth creationism points. Here’s another link with various criticisms of Hugh Ross.

Ross also claims that Noah’s Ark won’t be found, and that no one should try to find it, because it was found on the mountains of Ararat, not Mount Ararat, which think about that statement, it’s utterly stupid. The reason is because he’s making two logical fallacies i one, one being that people have said that it’s on Mount Ararat, therefore it must not exist there because the Bible says “mountains”. Now does that make any sense? He’s also gives no evidence for Genesis using the plural form of mountains, though he may be right. It’s also a strawman, since not all creationists say it’s in one spot, namely, me. Further, there’s no reason to believe that a piece of Noah’s ark, or rather a large portion of it DID NOT land on Mount Ararat, being that the ancients and modern explorers have found what apparently was once a single piece there (which later broke into two). My theory is that the bottom half may have sheared off when it landed or later on broke off (which is why there is a boat-shaped impression with metal underneath on one side of Mount Ararat, which may have once been on top of Mount Ararat or near it and later fell or slid down to the bottom, and rotted while being covered in dirt over thousands of years. It could also be that God said “mountains” because he considered the drogue stones to be apart of the ark, and that it was those that originally tore off and ended up in various parts of the Ararat mountain range. Some of the drogue stones are still around the Mount Ararat range.

Apparent drogue (ship anchor) stones from Noah’s Ark

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